Amigos,The VHSs (PAL and NTSC) have been mailed–redoing the DVDs is taking
the technician a little longer, but I believe I can mail them by Friday.

PLEASE NOTE: on the Oct. 17 tapes (and DVDs), there’s about 30
seconds of bad tape just when Russ starts talking. Just grind your teeth
and get past it, for the rest of the talk is fine.

Looking forward to getting my Bat Tattoo.

best,

alida

Please note–the M.R.James story erroneously cited by the
reviewer as “O Whistle and I’ll Come to You, My Lad” is actually
“Casting the Runes”. Another reviewer (in the Observer) said
the bat was on a plate instead of a bowl. I guess they have to
read fast and write without looking back.Russ

Has anyone remarked the fact that Kapoor’s *Marsyas* takes its
name from the arrogant flautist who lost a musical contest with
Apollo and was flayed alive by the god? So Kapoor gives us a great
big trumpet. For blowing whose horn?Russ

psA skin trumpet. Red

Russ

Will you guys cut it out.
I am stranded in Los Angeles where Pastrami comes out of
a plastic vacuum packed package and not out of the
kitchen at the Carnegie Deli where after 3 waiters go
by with six Pastrami SkyHigh sandwiches you realise that
it was probably a whole cow¹s worth walking past you.
My arteries are joyously hardening just thinking about it.
Chris, if ever you are in NY, veg or not, this you must do!Drooling, Jay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thats why humans dont go to L.A.Jay Friedkin <jay_____@_____.net> wrote:Will you guys cut it out.
I am stranded in Los Angeles where Pastrami comes out of
a plastic vacuum packed package and not out of the
kitchen at the Carnegie Deli where after 3 waiters go
by with six Pastrami SkyHigh sandwiches you realise that
it was probably a whole cow�s worth walking past you.
My arteries are joyously hardening just thinking about it.
Chris, if ever you are in NY, veg or not, this you must do!

Drooling, Jay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

one sandiwch at the right deli in manhattan or crroktown contains more meat than an entire deli here in santa fe. life has its horribel trade-off innit?
Russell Hoban <noc_____@_____.uk> wrote:
Chris–It’s interesting how one becomes resigned to things that aren’t the
real thing. When I lived in New York one of my cardiovascular-
unfriendly delights was hot pastrami on rye. The hot pastrami ethos
dictated that the sandwich be much of a too-muchness. I always had
to put some of the meat aside on the plate for the second time round.

When I came here I found that pastrami hadn’t (at least not on my
usual routes) so I made do with salt beef which is OK but it isn’t
hot pastrami. Once at a lunch bar in the West end I had what they
called New York pastrami but it was only the ghost of a faded echo
of the real high-cholesterol hit.

Now when I rrecall rami past all I can do is shake my head and say
“Ou sont les neiges d’antan?”

That’s how it goes.

Russ

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julesworks website is shakily up at www.geocities.com/julesotis13

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Something about the materials used and the scale of
the construction made me think that Kapoor intends his
sculpture as the evil, twisted anti-matter cousin of
the millenium dome.(That’s my story and I’m sticking to it)

Andrew

— Russell Hoban <noc_____@_____.uk> wrote:

Has anyone remarked the fact that Kapoor’s *Marsyas*
takes its name from the arrogant flautist who lost a
musical contest with Apollo and was flayed alive by
the god? So Kapoor gives us a great big trumpet. For
blowing whose horn?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you’ll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

On Tuesday, November 5, 2002, at 09:45 AM, Richard Cooper wrote:

> The TLS review which Gillian mentioned a couple of weeks back is
> subtitled “The magpie methods of Russell Hoban” and has much to say
> about this style/technique. . . . In
> case anybody has had trouble getting hold of this piece, the text of
> it is viewable (temporarily, and for Kraken discussion purposes only!)
> at www.thoughtcat.com/batreview.htm.

 

I read a sentence in this review I like very much:

“Wisdom, Hoban thinks, is an assembled thing, worked up in a magpie way
out of everything we ever noticed. ”

Reading one of Russell Hoban’s books is like jumping off a paved
highway and going off-road into the forest. You see what he notices,
and you might never have seen it otherwise.

That is my memory of how his books work, anyway.

I should explain: I joined this list 6 days ago, after having spent the
last ten years believing that Hoban had stopped writing. (In my
defense, I am an American.) The last Hoban book I read was The Medusa
Frequency. I realized how wrong I was when I saw a passing reference to
Fremder in Washington Post book critic Michael Dirda’s new book
Readings.

Fremder? I thought.

It was the work of 2 minutes to find the Head of Orpheus web site and
this list. I ordered Fremder from a Toronto used book dealer.

I am about as blank a slate as you are ever likely to come across with
respect to the recent books.

 

> Lil – good luck with “moving out of the universe of obligatory labor
> and into
> impoverished artistic independence”!

 

As a self-employed person, I move between those universes daily. It can
work once you get used to it.

Lindsay Edmunds

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hola Krakenistas,Here’s a very nice bit of news. I’m going to announce this in the
next update to The Head of Orpheus, but since I’m still running
behind with that, I thought I’d go ahead and give you all an early
tip-off.

[Fanfare] Through a special arrangement with Indiana University
Press, I have the privilege of announcing that the Russell Hoban
Omnibus is now available to Kraken members and Head of Orpheus
readers at a startlingly deep discount. (For anyone who needs a
refresher course on exactly what’s in the Omnibus, see
http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban/omnibus.html .) Here’s the story:

A couple of weeks ago I was contacted by Mark Kelly from IU Press who
said now that the Omnibus had been out a while, IU Press were
interested in doing some sales promotions to keep the inventory
moving, and did I think my readers would be interested in a special
deal? I said something like Boy howdy would they, and pointed out
that although the Omnibus is worth every penny of its $39.95 sticker
price, it’s normally a little too expensive to buy stacks of it to
give to everyone on your holiday shopping list, up to and including
the mail carrier, which Hoban fans would otherwise be inclined to do.

So with a little back and forth, we worked out the following amazing
deal, just in time for the holly-daze…

— As of this very moment, A Russell Hoban Omnibus is available to
Kraken members & HoO readers at the deeply discounted price of $17.95
per copy.

— If that’s not enough to make you whistle, that price includes
*free* shipping to ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD (media mail rate for US
addresses; regular surface mail rate for international addresses).

— $17.95? That’s less than half the $39.95 sticker price, and by the
time you figure in the free shipping, it’s not much more than half of
Amazon’s discounted rate of $27.97 + shipping.

HOW TO ORDER (including your special, secret password):

1. Call Indiana University Press at 800-842-6796 to order. (That’s a
US phone number, of course, so you’ll need to do the relevant extra
dialing if you’re calling from outside the US.)
2. You’ll need to call between the hours of 8am-5pm (I believe that’s
US Eastern Time), Monday through Friday.
3. Once you’re got them on the line, mention the special Hobanista
password “BOAZ” to confirm the discount rate of $17.95 plus free
shipping.

…it’s that easy! And the deal is already active: you can order
tomorrow if you like. (I haven’t tried it out yet myself, but if
anyone encounters any uninformed order takers or anything like that,
just let me know and Mark and I will get it cleared up.)

Don’t say I never did nothin’ for ya.

Crazy Azog, the Deep-Discountin’ Book Salesman
(Stop me before I make another great deal!)

—
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing…
What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002
by Dave Awl
—> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans

Russ wrote:

> Please note–the M.R.James story erroneously cited by the
> reviewer as “O Whistle and I’ll Come to You, My Lad” is actually
> “Casting the Runes”.

 

Aargh! This is what you get for not checking your facts!!

Thanks, Russ – the TLS mistake has now been annotated and a link provided to an online
text of the proper story.

Humbled,
Richard

I was looking at Kapoor’s Marsyas the other day and someone was saying it was a blimp. Hot
air maybe?Richard

PS I won’t tell you what I thought it was reminiscent of, being in mixed company and
everything.

> [Fanfare] Through a special arrangement with Indiana University Press,
> I have the privilege of announcing that the Russell Hoban Omnibus is
> now available to Kraken members and Head of Orpheus readers at a
> startlingly deep discount. As of this very moment, A Russell Hoban
> Omnibus is available to Kraken members & HoO readers at the deeply
> discounted price of $17.95 per copy.
>

Less than one week ago, I thought that one of my favorite writers had
abandoned the field. Now, here I am, a member of the Kraken, with
Fremder on the way from Canada, and the Omnibus ordered this morning
from IU. Hot pastrami!

The person at IU who took my order was polite, but disbelieving;
apparently, the news of the discount had not gotten to her. However,
she trusted me (which was surprising). She said she would call Mark
Kelly and verify.

Lindsay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lindsay wrote:

> >The person at IU who took my order was polite, but disbelieving;
>apparently, the news of the discount had not gotten to her. However,
>she trusted me (which was surprising). She said she would call Mark
>Kelly and verify.

 

Thanks, Lindsay, for the follow-up. (And welcome to The Kraken, by
the way!) I emailed Mark Kelley about this and hopefully the IU Press
staff will get briefed pronto. Still, it speaks very well for IU
Press that the staffer you talked to was so nice about the whole
thing, even being caught off guard.

Dave
—
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing…
What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002
by Dave Awl
—> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans

Just got this response back from Mark at IU Press:

>I think it was a sort-term memory thing in the orders department…I
>reaffirmed all the specifics
>with them just now, and we’re good to go!!!

 

So order away, Krakenites, and don’t forget the password “BOAZ.”

Thanks again to Lindsay for being the guinea pig.

Dave
—
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing…
What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002
by Dave Awl
—> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans

Nice one, Dave.I just love the idea of calling a number in the States and giving
someone a password. It has a certain Cold War, “the geese are flying
south early this year” quality about it. So even though I already
have the Omnibus, I’ll probably end up calling that number anyway.
It’s cloak and dagger, in a Hobanesque, moment under the moment sort
of a way.

Hot pastrami,
Chris

 

— In the_____@_____., Dave Awl &lt_____@_____.> wrote:

> > So order away, Krakenites, and don’t forget the password “BOAZ.”

Dave wrote:

> Thanks again to Lindsay for being the guinea pig.
>
>

Thanks to you, Dave. I feel like I just discovered hidden treasure.

Lindsay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lil, Chris and Richard, your reviews of Bat Tattoo are so detailed and
inspired that I merely find myself nodding and saying, yes, that’s it,
exactly, what a good way to say this. I liked your dream Lil, maybe we
will all go for that picnic one day (without the jets, perhaps).
Thanks for all the,links to reviews and other related articles such as
the one by David Lodge.Moreover, Richard, your suggestion to turn this novel into a film makes
more sense to me, too, than the earlier Kleinzeit film project embraced
by the Kraken, because Bat is indeed a more realistic book than the
earlier one (what about a Kleinzeit cartoon, though?). The funny thing
is that even though I can imagine someone like Julie Walters or a
younger Judi Dench in the role of Sarah, Jeremy Irons as Adelbert
Delarue and maybe Armin Mueller-Stahl as Dieter Scharf, I’m unable to
see anyone in the role of Roswell. Certainly not Ben Kingsley, perhaps
Harvey Keitel? Won’t do either, will he?

I couldn’t trace down the quote “You never really write anything new.
You spend your whole life writing the same thing in different ways”, but
while I was reading Bat I kept thinking of the lines by Will Jennings
which precede The Medusa Frequency: “Same old story, same old song; it
goes all right till it goes all wrong”.

The character I’m still wondering about is Adelbert/Albert. Apart from
the link to Granser in Riddley Walker, I can’t help associating him with
the diabolic baddie from E. T. A. Hoffmann’s novella “The Sandman”, i.e.
Coppelius/Coppola, who first brings about the death of the main
character’s, i.e. Nathanael’s father by carrying out alchemical
experiments with him, and who later drives Nathanael into madness and
suicide by turning him into the guinea pig he and Professor Spalanzani
need to test the effect of their doll Olimpia. But Adelbert/Albert isn’t
simply a baddie, there’s more to him that I can’t really grasp yet.

Finally, talking about Hoffmann, odd things and hidden links, I’ve found
an article in a local newspaper dating from tomorrow (!) about the
82-year-old German tattoo artist Herbert Hoffmann, who has just
published a marvellous book of photographs of tattooed people he has
been collecting and taking for 50 years. The book’s title is
“BilderbuchMenschen. Tätowierte Passionen von 1878-1952” (i.e.
“picture-book people, tatooed passions from …”.) The English edition
is called “Living Picture Books”. If you go to <www.worldsend.ch>, the
homepage of the gallery where his photographs are exhibited from 7th to
29th November, you can look at some of the photographs. There is also a
further link to a gallery in Berlin with information on Herbert’s
biography (you’d have to be able to read German, though). I couldn’t
spot a bat among the creatures sprawling over people’s bodies, but on
Herbert’s belly there is something that looks like the writhing arm of a
kraken.

Pulling in my net for today,

Yvonne

Lil, Chris and Richard, your reviews of Bat Tattoo are so detailed and
inspired that I merely find myself nodding and saying, yes, that’s it,
exactly, what a good way to say this. I liked your dream Lil, maybe we
will all go for that picnic one day (without the jets, perhaps).
Thanks for all the,links to reviews and other related articles such as
the one by David Lodge.Moreover, Richard, your suggestion to turn this novel into a film makes
more sense to me, too, than the earlier Kleinzeit film project embraced
by the Kraken, because Bat is indeed a more realistic book than the
earlier one (what about a Kleinzeit cartoon, though?). The funny thing
is that even though I can imagine someone like Julie Walters or a
younger Judi Dench in the role of Sarah, Jeremy Irons as Adelbert
Delarue and maybe Armin Mueller-Stahl as Dieter Scharf, I’m unable to
see anyone in the role of Roswell. Certainly not Ben Kingsley, perhaps
Harvey Keitel? Won’t do either, will he?

I couldn’t trace down the quote “You never really write anything new.
You spend your whole life writing the same thing in different ways”, but
while I was reading Bat I kept thinking of the lines by Will Jennings
which precede The Medusa Frequency: “Same old story, same old song; it
goes all right till it goes all wrong”.

The character I’m still wondering about is Adelbert/Albert. Apart from
the link to Granser in Riddley Walker, I can’t help associating him with
the diabolic baddie from E. T. A. Hoffmann’s novella “The Sandman”, i.e.
Coppelius/Coppola, who first brings about the death of the main
character’s, i.e. Nathanael’s father by carrying out alchemical
experiments with him, and who later drives Nathanael into madness and
suicide by turning him into the guinea pig he and Professor Spalanzani
need to test the effect of their doll Olimpia. But Adelbert/Albert isn’t
simply a baddie, there’s more to him that I can’t really grasp yet.

Finally, talking about Hoffmann, odd things and hidden links, I’ve found
an article in a local newspaper dating from tomorrow (!) about the
82-year-old German tattoo artist Herbert Hoffmann, who has just
published a marvellous book of photographs of tattooed people he has
been collecting and taking for 50 years. The book’s title is
“BilderbuchMenschen. Tätowierte Passionen von 1878-1952” (i.e.
“picture-book people, tatooed passions from …”.) The English edition
is called “Living Picture Books”. If you go to <www.worldsend.ch>, the
homepage of the gallery where his photographs are exhibited from 7th to
29th November, you can look at some of the photographs. There is also a
further link to a gallery in Berlin with information on Herbert’s
biography (you’d have to be able to read German, though). I couldn’t
spot a bat among the creatures sprawling over people’s bodies, but on
Herbert’s belly there is something that looks like the writhing arm of a
kraken.

Pulling in my net for today,

Yvonne

The password is “boaz”? It’ll be funny handshakes and even funnier walks next…Fraternally,
Richard

Hi, Richard-
I think the “writing the same thing over and over again” sentiment is a common one among authors (and critics). While working on a show recently, I came upon this quote by Fitzgerald that may be the one you are thinking of…or just another way of saying the same thing.”Mostly, we authors repeat ourselves – that’s the truth. We have two or three great and moving experiences in our lives – experiences so great and moving that it doesn’t seem at the time that anyone else has been so caught up and pounded and dazzled and astonished and beaten and broken and humbled in just that way ever before.

Then we learn our trade, well or less well, and we tell our two or three stories – each time in a new disguise – maybe ten times, maybe a hundred, as long as people will listen.”

F. Scott Fitzgerald
“One Hundred False Starts”
Saturday Evening Post (4 March 1933)

From the e-shadows,
Slick
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
DRINKING + WRITING
By and with Diana Slickman, Steve Mosqueda and Sean Benjamin
Fridays at 9:00
Saturdays at 7:00
Through November 23
At T’s Bar & Restaurant
5025 N. Clark St. (at Winnemac)
More info: 773/275-5255 www.neofuturists.org

I realised they were different people as I was walking
home – a sort of ‘wait a minute, that was Germain not
Martin at the end of his name’ moment – after which I
felt very stupid.theo

=====
“We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane” – Kilgore Trout

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH – Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

How nice to sit down to my Kraken mail, after several painful weeks of
separating and move-housing, to find a hundred and forty-odd postings
awaiting! Even nicer to be back than it was to be here before I wasn’t.About “writing the same thing over and over again”:

Dennis Potter put it well when he said that any writer has only a small
field to plough, and must keep ploughing it, over and over again.

Reminds me of Russ’s observation that “Whatever seas the writer is trawling
in, he can only haul up in his nets the fish that swim there … every
writer hauls up from the sea of himself the catch that is himself.”

About Bat:
I didn’t order from Amazon or Bloomsbury because I foolishly imagined we’d
have the book in Australia soon enough. Silly me. But a friend has given me
an uncorrected proof copy, and so far I’M LOVING IT. I’m only 30 pages in
but the characterisation is just beautiful. Yes, it’s true: it’s so good,
you can’t not put it down.

Hello!
Graeme

Welcome back, GraemeLovely quotes, as usual from you. Have a good re-start and enjoy the
rest of Bat now that you have a new space-time to fill.

Cheers,
Yvonne

PS: … “you can’t not put it down”, or “you can’t not not put it down”,
or…?

 

> but the characterisation is just beautiful. Yes, it’s true: it’s so
> good,
> you can’t not put it down.
>
> Hello!

Dear Graeme and other Hoban DVD-ers,The DVDs are being mailed today, so you’ll all have them in a few
days. Meanwhile, I just got my copy of Bat, also have Yvonne’s impresssive
500+ page book on Russ’ books, Den’s MA thesis, and Dave’s What the Sea
Means to savor over this rainy Pacific Coast weekend. It hardly ever rains
in San Diego, so this is a sign to curl up and read.

more anon,

alida

At 04:51 PM 11/9/2002 +1100, you wrote:

>How nice to sit down to my Kraken mail, after several painful weeks of
>separating and move-housing, to find a hundred and forty-odd postings
>awaiting! Even nicer to be back than it was to be here before I wasn’t.
>
>
>About “writing the same thing over and over again”:
>
>Dennis Potter put it well when he said that any writer has only a small
>field to plough, and must keep ploughing it, over and over again.
>
>Reminds me of Russ’s observation that “Whatever seas the writer is trawling
>in, he can only haul up in his nets the fish that swim there … every
>writer hauls up from the sea of himself the catch that is himself.”
>
>
>About Bat:
>I didn’t order from Amazon or Bloomsbury because I foolishly imagined we’d
>have the book in Australia soon enough. Silly me. But a friend has given me
>an uncorrected proof copy, and so far I’M LOVING IT. I’m only 30 pages in
>but the characterisation is just beautiful. Yes, it’s true: it’s so good,
>you can’t not put it down.
>
>Hello!
>Graeme
>
>
>
>
>
>
>—————————————————
>The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
>For help contact the_____@_____.com
>To unsubscribe, send mail to:
>the_____@_____.com
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Thanks Yvonne.

>PS: … “you can’t not put it down”, or “you can’t not not put it down”,

or…?

yes… I was thinking of what Chris said:

“I often find my mind wandering – not due to boredom, but
because of the sheer weight of so much that’s going on within its
pages.”

So it’s very positive, that double negative. Intoxicating. But you’re right:
You can’t not not, either. Make that a triple, barman.

G

Alida wrote:

> Meanwhile, I just got my copy of Bat, also have Yvonne’s impresssive
>500+ page book on Russ’ books,

 

I too have been meaning to mention Yvonne’s book, Ideas, Obsessions,
Intertexts: A Nonlinear Approach to Russell Hoban’s Fiction, which I
received my copy of this week. I really wasn’t expecting such a
beautifully published book, and 539 pages the word “impressive” is
inadequate to describe its size. It discusses all of the novels up
through Fremder!

Yvonne, should I mention your book in my pending News update to Head
of Orpheus? If it generates demand for copies, is there a way people
can order them? If so, I’d also be inclined to list it in the
“Criticism” area of the site. Let me know, and thanks again for
sending it along.

>Den’s MA thesis, and Dave’s What the Sea
>Means to savor over this rainy Pacific Coast weekend.

 

Speaking of my book, I want to thank all the Krakenites who’ve
ordered, read, and/or said kind things about What the Sea Means. A
certain “kleinzeit” from down New Zealand way (hmmm) even posted a
very snappy review of it to the Amazon.com page for What the Sea
Means. I certainly couldn’t wish for any closer or more perceptive
readers than Hoban fans…

Seazog
—
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing…
What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002
by Dave Awl
—> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans

Dear DaveIf you think my book might be worth mentioning, I don’t mind your
putting it in the News update to HoO or the Criticism area.

As regards getting a copy: I think the fastest way would be to order a
copy directly from the publisher. Actually, only 300 copies were printed
for sale, and I haven’t the slightest idea how many have been sold since
my dissertation was published. Since I got a publication grant from the
Swiss National Science Foundation, it’s they who get all the reports and
figures whereas I have never heard from the publisher anymore. They
haven’t sent me any reviews either; perhaps there weren’t any.
Unfortunately, my book is indecently expensive, it costs 86 Swiss
francs, which is about 60$ or 37£ (without the grant it would have been
twice as expensive!). So, for those who don’t want to spend so much, I
recommend borrowing it by International Loan (I had to hand in copies to
the Zentralbibliothek Zürich, which is the university library here).

If anyone would like to get a copy of his/her own all the same, here is
the address of the publisher:

A. Francke Verlag Tübingen und Basel
Dischingerweg 5
D-72070 Tübingen
Germany

They have a homepage, too:
<http://www.narr.de>
You’ll have to click on “Reihen”, then go to to “Schweizer Anglistische
Arbeiten”, where the book can be ordered.

The publication information is as follows:

Studer, Yvonne:
Ideas, Obsessions, Intertexts: A Nonlinear Approach to Russell Hoban’s
Fiction.
Tübingen; Basel: Francke, 2000.
(Swiss Studies in English; vol. 128)
ISBN 3-7720-2440-8

Hope that will help,

Yvonne

Diana, I know and love that Fitzgerald quote, and when I couldn’t remember my original
quote I thought perhaps it was that one I was thinking of. I think Fitzgerald got it
right; surely the reason anyone creates art in any medium is to try to recreate,
re-experience or pay homage to those “dazzling and astonishing” experiences in life, or to
try to re-work them to get them to come out better or different.Graeme, your quotes are also very pertinent. I remember that Dennis Potter interview with
Alan Yentob from sometime in the late 80s – wonderful stuff. Russ’s quote that “every
writer hauls up from the sea of himself the catch that is himself” in turn reminds me of
this e.e. cummings poem:

maggie and milly and molly and may
went down to the beach(to play one day)

and maggie discovered a shell that sang
so sweetly she couldn’t remember her troubles,and

milly befriended a stranded star
whose rays five languid fingers were;

and molly was chased by a horrible thing
which raced sideways while blowing bubbles:and

may came home with a smooth round stone
as small as a world and as large as alone.

For whatever we lose(like a you or a me)
it’s always ourselves we find in the sea

Richard

Alida,My tapes arrived the other day and they are fantastic – thank you so much for doing these.
It’s great to see Russ in full flow!

I was amazed at his anecdote about Mad Max 3. Someone posted a long time ago about the
similarity between the film and Riddley Walker, but I had no idea until I saw this video
that Russ had actually wined and dined the director beforehand (and given him a copy of
RW) with a view to trying to get him to make Riddley into a film – and then the director
went off by himself and made MM3 with all the parallels with RW without even crediting the
influence. I think we should lobby the guy (I’ve forgotten his name) to at least apologise
to Russ, if not credit an influence and pay him a royalty. If Tony Blair can apologise to
the Irish for the potato famine then this guy can put things to rights as well!

Richard

At 09:46 15/11/02 +0000, you wrote:

>Alida,
>
>My tapes arrived the other day and they are fantastic – thank you so much
>for doing these.
>It’s great to see Russ in full flow!
>
>I was amazed at his anecdote about Mad Max 3. Someone posted a long time
>ago about the
>similarity between the film and Riddley Walker, but I had no idea until I
>saw this video
>that Russ had actually wined and dined the director beforehand (and given
>him a copy of
>RW) with a view to trying to get him to make Riddley into a film – and
>then the director
>went off by himself and made MM3 with all the parallels with RW without
>even crediting the
>influence. I think we should lobby the guy (I’ve forgotten his name) to at
>least apologise
>to Russ, if not credit an influence and pay him a royalty. If Tony Blair
>can apologise to
>the Irish for the potato famine then this guy can put things to rights as
>well!
>
>Richard
>
>Richard–

 

George Miller wined and dined *me*. not the other way round. Othewise the
story is correct as you quote it. His screenwriter for MM3, as for much of
his other work, was Terry (don’t remember the surname).

Russ

>—————————————————
>The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
><http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
>For help contact the_____@_____.com
>To unsubscribe, send mail to:
>the_____@_____.com
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Russ,I sent you a copy of the tapes in PAL format–they’ll be arriving
soon. I can also make you a DVD set if that works better for you. Just let
me know.

Thanks to all who’ve let me know the material arrived. I’m relieved. I
was one set of DVDs short, closed my eyes, and just picked an addressed
envelope at random to select the lucky person whose DVDs will be
late–Lara, you’re it. Will have DVDs to you I hope by the end of this week.

all bes’.

alida

At 11:10 AM 11/15/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>At 09:46 15/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >Alida,
> >
> >My tapes arrived the other day and they are fantastic – thank you so much
> >for doing these.
> >It’s great to see Russ in full flow!
> >
> >I was amazed at his anecdote about Mad Max 3. Someone posted a long time
> >ago about the
> >similarity between the film and Riddley Walker, but I had no idea until I
> >saw this video
> >that Russ had actually wined and dined the director beforehand (and given
> >him a copy of
> >RW) with a view to trying to get him to make Riddley into a film – and
> >then the director
> >went off by himself and made MM3 with all the parallels with RW without
> >even crediting the
> >influence. I think we should lobby the guy (I’ve forgotten his name) to at
> >least apologise
> >to Russ, if not credit an influence and pay him a royalty. If Tony Blair
> >can apologise to
> >the Irish for the potato famine then this guy can put things to rights as
> >well!
> >
> >Richard
> >
> >Richard–
>
> George Miller wined and dined *me*. not the other way round. Othewise the
>story is correct as you quote it. His screenwriter for MM3, as for much of
>his other work, was Terry (don’t remember the surname).
>
>
>Russ
>
> >—————————————————
> >The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> ><http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> >For help contact the_____@_____.com
> >To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> >the_____@_____.com
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>—————————————————
>The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
>For help contact the_____@_____.com
>To unsubscribe, send mail to:
>the_____@_____.com
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hey Alida,I got my discs just fine on Wednesday so your mailing skills are a big success.

Thanks!

best,
Dave
—
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing…
What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002
by Dave Awl
—> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans

Russ,Sorry about that… one day I’ll get all my facts right. Doesn’t stop George Miller from
being a git, though!

Richard

—– Original Message —–
From: “Russell Hoban” <noc_____@_____.uk>
> >Richard–
>
> George Miller wined and dined *me*. not the other way round. Othewise the
> story is correct as you quote it. His screenwriter for MM3, as for much of
> his other work, was Terry (don’t remember the surname).
>
> Russ

I posted the original link between MM3 and RW in my first message to Dave on
HoO.Russ, if I had known the true stroy I would have been quite scathing towards
fellow Aussie Mr. Miller, and apologetic on behalf of all Australians.

Kerry Power
Melbourne, Oz

 

—– Original Message —–
From: “Russell Hoban” <noc_____@_____.uk>
To: <the_____@_____.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [the-kraken] Hoban tapes

> At 09:46 15/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >Alida,
> >
> >My tapes arrived the other day and they are fantastic – thank you so much
> >for doing these.
> >It’s great to see Russ in full flow!
> >
> >I was amazed at his anecdote about Mad Max 3. Someone posted a long time
> >ago about the
> >similarity between the film and Riddley Walker, but I had no idea until I
> >saw this video
> >that Russ had actually wined and dined the director beforehand (and given
> >him a copy of
> >RW) with a view to trying to get him to make Riddley into a film – and
> >then the director
> >went off by himself and made MM3 with all the parallels with RW without
> >even crediting the
> >influence. I think we should lobby the guy (I’ve forgotten his name) to
at
> >least apologise
> >to Russ, if not credit an influence and pay him a royalty. If Tony Blair
> >can apologise to
> >the Irish for the potato famine then this guy can put things to rights as
> >well!
> >
> >Richard
> >
> >Richard–
>
> George Miller wined and dined *me*. not the other way round. Othewise
the
> story is correct as you quote it. His screenwriter for MM3, as for much of
> his other work, was Terry (don’t remember the surname).
>
>
Russ
>
> >—————————————————
> >The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> ><http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> >For help contact the_____@_____.com
> >To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> >the_____@_____.com
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> For help contact the_____@_____.com
> To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> the_____@_____.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Mine arrived on Saturday. Thank you very much!Lil

—– Original Message —–
From: Alida Allison

Thanks to all who’ve let me know the material arrived. I’m relieved. I
was one set of DVDs short, closed my eyes, and just picked an addressed
envelope at random to select the lucky person whose DVDs will be
late–Lara, you’re it. Will have DVDs to you I hope by the end of this week.

all bes’.

alida

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There’s more to the RW and MM3 story. Several years later,
admiring Ridley Scott’s work very much, I asked my agent
if he could get Scott to read RW. He seemed the best director
for it at the time and I thought he had the necessary clout to
attract funding for the film. He read it and he told my agent
that MM3 had pre-empted Riddley Walker. They really know
how to hurt a guy.
Russ

> Yeah but truth be told, all they grabbed from RW was really
> a rhythm and style of the language. Story wise their culture
> was nothing like RW, and except for the vaguest human generality
> of wanting to ³go home², their narrative was just an excuse
> for a car chase.
> For Riddley Scott to claim that his namesake couldn¹t be made into
> a film because of MM3 sort of implies that he missed the point
> really.
> It¹s a shame about George though, having worked with him on
> 2 films and knowing how his mind works (a beautiful and terrible
> thing it is) he seems to be one of the few guys who would have
> been able to translate the richness of RW to the screen. On
> the other hand if the best that he and Terry Hayes could ultimately do was to
> rip off the language, maybe he it was better off that he didn¹t.
> (Except for the obvious financial boon to Russ)
>
> By the way, is there any material like an old interview that gives
> Russ¹ view on the adaption of Turtle Diary to the screen?
> Personally I always have cringed at the over-Pinter-ing of the
> treatment.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:21:52 +0000
> From: Russell Hoban <noc_____@_____.uk>
> Subject: GEORGE MILLER AND RIDLEY SCOTT
>
> There’s more to the RW and MM3 story. Several years later,
> admiring Ridley Scott’s work very much, I asked my agent
> if he could get Scott to read RW. He seemed the best director
> for it at the time and I thought he had the necessary clout to
> attract funding for the film. He read it and he told my agent
> that MM3 had pre-empted Riddley Walker. They really know
> how to hurt a guy.
> Russ
>
>

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hollywood punks
thats why digital might crumble their evil empire.
maybe one day all the empires will hurt and cry.
ah what a dreamer i am
its the fault of writers like Russell Hoban, they encourage us to lvie in our imaginations.
did anybody read about the insane competition amongst silly upper side manhattanites to get their preciosu little hcildren into the 92nd street Y preschool
oei vey
love, juelsy
Jay Friedkin <jay_____@_____.net> wrote:> Yeah but truth be told, all they grabbed from RW was really

> a rhythm and style of the language. Story wise their culture
> was nothing like RW, and except for the vaguest human generality
> of wanting to �go home�, their narrative was just an excuse
> for a car chase.
> For Riddley Scott to claim that his namesake couldn�t be made into
> a film because of MM3 sort of implies that he missed the point
> really.
> It�s a shame about George though, having worked with him on
> 2 films and knowing how his mind works (a beautiful and terrible
> thing it is) he seems to be one of the few guys who would have
> been able to translate the richness of RW to the screen. On
> the other hand if the best that he and Terry Hayes could ultimately do was to
> rip off the language, maybe he it was better off that he didn�t.
> (Except for the obvious financial boon to Russ)
>
> By the way, is there any material like an old interview that gives
> Russ� view on the adaption of Turtle Diary to the screen?
> Personally I always have cringed at the over-Pinter-ing of the
> treatment.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:21:52 +0000
> From: Russell Hoban
> Subject: GEORGE MILLER AND RIDLEY SCOTT
>
> There’s more to the RW and MM3 story. Several years later,
> admiring Ridley Scott’s work very much, I asked my agent
> if he could get Scott to read RW. He seemed the best director
> for it at the time and I thought he had the necessary clout to
> attract funding for the film. He read it and he told my agent
> that MM3 had pre-empted Riddley Walker. They really know
> how to hurt a guy.
> Russ
>
>

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

—————————————————
The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
For help contact the_____@_____.com
To unsubscribe, send mail to:
the_____@_____.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

JULESWORKS FOR YOU
find jules and otis at:
julesworks website is shakily up at www.geocities.com/julesotis13

———————————
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your site

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Feeling a little bored the other night, I went to Babelfish and started translating things
from English into other languages and then back to English again (as Dave will testify, a
fun exercise that has enlivened many a dull moment). I found that if you translate “The
Bat Tattoo” into Spanish and then Babelfish’s translation back into English again the
title comes back as “The Tattoo of the Wood”. This was interesting given the important
part that wood plays in the novel (not to mention “the hart/heart of the wood/would” from
RW), and although there seems no obvious Spanish influences in the book or in Russ’s work
as a whole (Tom Waits’ “Walking Spanish down the hall” reference in Amaryllis, and the
author’s penchant for the Buena Vista Social Club records aside), it occurred to me this
may be a synchronicitous linguistic curio/pun along the lines of “Vermeer” translating as
“sea” in German (something else I found out with Babelfish, as it happens). It turns out
that Babelfish was translating “bat” as “palo” in the sense of “wooden stick to hit things
with” rather than our flying friends, and “palo” came back as the somewhat blunt “wood”.
Then of course “stick” brought to mind the even blunter instrument that Mr Punch uses to
batter people with, and so it went on.I then tried translating a bit of the TLS review of The Bat Tattoo into Spanish and back
again, which returned the line “men and women at the cranky pivot between getting on
together and being in love” as “men and women in the null and voidable pivot between
obtaining ignition together and being in love”. There’s no getting away from the
automobilical references, is there?? Especially given the parallels the reviewer draws
between The Bat Tattoo and JG Ballard’s “Crash”. I went out and bought the latter novel
having read the review to judge for myself if M. John Harrison was justified in saying
that Russ “[weaves] Ballard’s text into his own with such outright cheeky deftness [and
draws] from it almost opposite conclusions”. The only “opposite conclusion” I can see
however is
that Ballard’s book is about people who perversely get off on car crashes, whereas The Bat
Tattoo has one character whose experience of car crashes is that they are very unpleasant.
Furthermore, “Crash” seems to me an immense exercise in style (indeed, a triumph of style
over content), whereas Russ of course has his own unique style, which is nothing like
Ballard’s at all, and the
content of Bat is a hell of a lot more satisfying than that of Crash. (I don’t mean to
denigrate Ballard’s style, which is amazing in itself.) That said, I’m only half way
through the Ballard novel (and struggling immensely to maintain enough interest to
complete it). Does anyone else think there are any more than superficial parallels between
the two novels?

Accelerating away,
Richard

Hi Alida,My DVDs arrived in NZ this morning. I seem to have got two sets (i.e.
4 DVDs). Did I get someone else’s in error? Clearly, I haven’t had a
chance to watch them yet to see what’s what…

Well being,
Chris

— In the_____@_____., Dave Awl &lt_____@_____.> wrote:
> Hey Alida,
>
> I got my discs just fine on Wednesday so your mailing skills are a
big success.
>
> Thanks!
>
> best,
> Dave

Chris, I WILL TAKE THE EXTRA SET!!!!!!Hi, its Judy, I’m just back from travelling and feeling like I MUST have the
DVDs now, so if I can get them from you I will….I’m in Sydney, how much
should I send you?

xx (The Late) Judy

—– Original Message —–
From: Chris Bell <chr_____@_____.nz>
To: <the_____@_____.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:01 AM
Subject: [the-kraken] So good they burned them twice…?

> Hi Alida,
>
> My DVDs arrived in NZ this morning. I seem to have got two sets (i.e.
> 4 DVDs). Did I get someone else’s in error? Clearly, I haven’t had a
> chance to watch them yet to see what’s what…
>
> Well being,
> Chris
>
> — In the_____@_____., Dave Awl &lt_____@_____.> wrote:
> > Hey Alida,
> >
> > I got my discs just fine on Wednesday so your mailing skills are a
> big success.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > best,
> > Dave
>
>
> —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> For help contact the_____@_____.com
> To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> the_____@_____.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I have no idea whether this is genuine, or if it is, itself, a hoax.
Better to be safe than sorry, I guess.Well being,
Chris

———————-

> Someone has been joining communities with the
> nickname YAHOO COMMUNITY
> MONITOR, and then posting the following: Yahoo
> Community Monitor says:
>
> Yahoo Group Managers have been receiving a few
> complaints about your
> group.I am required to join your site and monitor it
> for about one
> month.I will not do anything to damage or ruin your
> site, I am only
> required to monitor it.The only thing required of
> you is to accept my
> application and make me a Manager of your group for
> the time I am there.
>
> If you cannot meet these requirements,Yahoo will
> have to shut your group
> down.
>
> DO NOT!! make this person a manager! SHE/HE is a
> fake, and has been
> deleting groups once made a manager. BAN the member
> immediately.
>
> Please let other groups know about this problem.

Hello.I recently read “Riddley Walker,” and am delighted to have found this
list. I wonder if anyone here can explain to me the meaning of the
adjective “girt,” which is used many times throughout the book?

Best wishes,
Joel

> Hello.
>
> I recently read “Riddley Walker,” and am delighted to have found this
> list. I wonder if anyone here can explain to me the meaning of the
> adjective “girt,” which is used many times throughout the book?
>
> Best wishes,
> Joel
>

Joel
Girt = Great.. common in the spoken English of South-West England..
so..

She roids a girt big rat with red oyes it can see in the dark and it can smel
whos ready for Aunty!

Tim

Yes in RW it reads as “great” – interestingly the Australian National
Anthem – Advance Australia Fair – uses the word “girt” -Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil,
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in Nature’s gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;……

In this instance girt means encircles. Not aware of any person who uses the
word in common speech – but there it sits in our anthem.

As an aside, my eldest daughter used to think the line “Our land abounds in
Nature’s gifts” was

Our land abounds in nature strips… !!!!

For those not in the know – “nature strips” are the small strips of grass
between the road and the footpath seen everywhere throughout suburbia.

Kerry

—– Original Message —–
From: <T.H_____@_____.uk>
To: <the_____@_____.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [the-kraken] “girt”

>
> > Hello.
> >
> > I recently read “Riddley Walker,” and am delighted to have found this
> > list. I wonder if anyone here can explain to me the meaning of the
> > adjective “girt,” which is used many times throughout the book?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Joel
> >
> Joel
> Girt = Great.. common in the spoken English of South-West England..
> so..
>
> She roids a girt big rat with red oyes it can see in the dark and it can
smel
> whos ready for Aunty!
>
> Tim
>
>
> —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> For help contact the_____@_____.com
> To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> the_____@_____.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

At 04:27 18/11/02 +0000, you wrote:

>Hello.
>
>I recently read “Riddley Walker,” and am delighted to have found this
>list. I wonder if anyone here can explain to me the meaning of the
>adjective “girt,” which is used many times throughout the book?
>
>Best wishes,
>Joel
>
>Joel–“Girt” is “great”.

 

Russ

 

>—————————————————
>The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
><http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
>For help contact the_____@_____.com
>To unsubscribe, send mail to:
>the_____@_____.com
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris,This has several signs of being a hoax.

It tries to get lots of people to forward it

There is no direct source for the original incident
and a vagueness about the people involved

Excessive use of CAPITALS and exclamation marks!!!

****

A quick check to Yahoo or to the Hoaxbusters website
should confirm it’s veracity (or otherwise)

Your motives are honourable though,

Andrew

PS: apologies: my finger slipped and I may have sent
an incomplete version of this post out: please ignore
it.

@Tm
— Chris Bell <chr_____@_____.nz> wrote:

I have no idea whether this is genuine, or if it is,
itself, a hoax. Better to be safe than sorry, I guess.

Well being,

Chris

<snip>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you’ll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

>My DVDs arrived in NZ this morning. I seem to have got two sets (i.e.
>4 DVDs). Did I get someone else’s in error? Clearly, I haven’t had a
>chance to watch them yet to see what’s what…

 

Chris, I think you were actually *supposed* to get four discs…I
did, too, and I was thrown at first, until I noticed that one set is
labeled “October 17, 1990” and the other “October 18, 1990,” so they
aren’t the same. Which will probably become more apparent when we
have time to actually watch them…

Dave
—
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing…
What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002
by Dave Awl
—> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans

Thank you, Russ — I had no idea you were on this list! It’s a
pleasure to be able to tell you personally that I’ve been urging my
friends to read “Riddley Walker” ever since I finished it a couple of
weeks ago. What a deep, moving, frightening, funny, daring book it is!
I look forward to reading other works of yours. In fact, I look
forward to rereading “Riddley Walker.”I found this list after going on an unsuccessful Google search for the
source of “sovereign galaxies and flaming nebuli.” Is this a quotation
from a song or poem?

Best wishes,
Joel

Russell Hoban wrote:

> At 04:27 18/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hello.
> >
> >I recently read “Riddley Walker,” and am delighted to have found this
> >list. I wonder if anyone here can explain to me the meaning of the
> >adjective “girt,” which is used many times throughout the book?
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >Joel
> >
> >Joel–“Girt” is “great”.
>
> Russ
>
>
> >—————————————————
> >The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> ><http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban >http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> >For help contact the_____@_____.com
> >To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> >the_____@_____.com
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> For help contact the_____@_____.com
> To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> the_____@_____.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]