Chris was asking day or two back about Marzipan Pig, and whether it would
be in the Omnibus. Funny thing is, I had been wondering about the same
thing myself, having noticed just about the same time Chris did that
somewhere along the road it had vanished from my list of contents for the
Omnibus. Back when Mr. H. first told me about the Omnibus, he mentioned the
Pig as one of the things that would be included; but when he sent me the
itemized list of contents some weeks later–the list that I posted in the
News area of the website–Marzipan Pig wasn’t on it. At the time I didn’t
notice the omission. So we’re left with one of two possibilities:a) MPig got dropped from the book, or
b) it just got accidentally left out of the list of contents Russ sent me.

It appears that in order to resolve this confusion I’ll need to get an
official answer, from either Mr. H. or the folks at IU press, on whether
the Omnibus will be pigless or bepigged. Will let you all know what I find
out.

yours,
Dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note my new address: day_____@_____.com
Ocelot Factory: http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll

> From: Day Voll <day_____@_____.com>
>
>
> Chris was asking day or two back about Marzipan Pig, and whether it would
> be in the Omnibus. Funny thing is, I had been wondering about the same
> thing myself, having noticed just about the same time Chris did that
> somewhere along the road it had vanished from my list of contents for the
> Omnibus. Back when Mr. H. first told me about the Omnibus, he mentioned the
> Pig as one of the things that would be included; but when he sent me the
> itemized list of contents some weeks later–the list that I posted in the
> News area of the website–Marzipan Pig wasn’t on it.

 

I’m glad you say this because I honestly thought I was hallucinating. I
mean, I want a copy of the pig, but when it gets so bad I start imagining
it’s gonna be in an omnibus, well then there is a problem 🙂

The IU page only lists the contents you’ve mentions so probably no pig.
If anyone has extra pig and wants to share, let me know.

RE: Kleinzeit sucks.
The interesting thing about this is my original take on Turtle and Lion
was that they were sub-par, but after reading through his other books I
went back and read Turtle to find that it was fantastic and I was just
stupid. I still have to get back to Lion and see where it takes me. I
guess my impression with Hoban is that no matter what he is always
attempting something very personal and sincere and that while we may not
be in the right frame of mind for it at that time, it is all worthwhile.
When I figure out why I seem to be in the right frame of mind for
Pilgermann I’ll let you know 🙂 Incidentally, of things that ‘suck’, I’ve
can’t say I enjoyed the Turtle movie that much, finding the omission of
internal monologue too much of a loss to keep the film moving along. Any
big movie fans?

RE: Reviewing stuff on Amazon

Actually Amazon lists lots of things that are out of print. I have
reviewed Medusa, Mouse and his Child, La Corona, Trokeville and
Pilgermann, most of which are out of print. Just be careful and proof
what you put up first because you can’t change it later and it is very
embarassing.
A bit off topic but Amazon has been a lot of fun for me as of late,
because you never know what you can find. You can now review everything
from power adapters to the bible, but my favorite element is how there is
always that user that seems to not just dislike a book but hate it
passionately, and wants to tell you why it is an offense to readers that
the book exists. Most memorable example is a parent who threw away their
copy of wind in the willows because of the ‘piper at the gates of dawn’
chapter. Ok, I’m easily entertained, but Mamazon is a blast 🙂

Chris

“If the world lives to see another century, please remember what
Mothra did for you and the planet you live on.” — Godzilla versus Mothra

FYI, I just got word from Bloomsbury that the release date for Grotto has
been moved up slightly, to October 28. I have corrected our community
calendar on Onelist.40 days and counting.

Dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note my new address: day_____@_____.com
Ocelot Factory: http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll

The Omnibus plot thickens. Just consulted the IU Press site, after Chris M
mentioned they had some info up. (I had tried searching the site before and
gotten nothing on the Omnibus, but if you go into the Fall 1999 area you
can find it.) Anyway, not only doesn’t their list include Mpig, as CM
pointed out, it *does* include the fragmentary Adventures of Manny Rat, Mr.
Hoban’s abandoned sequel to Mouse and His Child. This is a new one on me!
I’m glad I found out about it, because some kind soul–Tim Haillay, I
think?–had been good enough to send me a xeroxed copy of Manny Rat from a
children’s magazine and I was planning on posting it on The Head of Orpheus
eventually. Of course I can’t/won’t now that it’s going to be part of the
Omnibus.Anyway, that might explain why the Pig was dropped from the Omnibus. He got
bumped off by Manny Rat!

Dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note my new address: day_____@_____.com
Ocelot Factory: http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll

I’ve got nothing intelligent to add to the discussion at this stage (“So,
what’s new?!” I hear you cry as one), except to say that:1) Kleinzeit is to RH’s body of work what… it is. It’s all part of the one
thing. And if you haven’t grasped that by now, hey, no problem.

2) I truly hope that the discussions in this list are not going to dwindle
off into some twilight realm where we all talk about how much or how little
we like each individual book in comparison to the others. This is not meant
as a personal affront to anyone’s right to an opinion – they are all equally
worthwhile/worthless. “Anything, any time, any place, for no reason at all.”
Let’s not forget that Kleinzeit contains vital recurring (or subliminal)
images – the yellow paper, the Underground, the London that we will revisit
later in The Medusa Frequency and Mr Rinyo Clacton. Perhaps we will serve
one another better if we try to find out on which subjects we concur, rather
than those about which we will always disagree because of our backgrounds,
cultural differences, tastes or lack of them. But then, that’s just my
opinion.

3) Dave, I loved, in your reference to the matter of the Marzipan’s Pig
absence from the Omnibus, your use of the words ‘pigless or bepigged’. Here
is a man upon whom a Hobanic use of the language has clearly rubbed off.

Fellow Hobanites (Hobanophiles sounds somefink criminal) unite!
Chris Bell

BellChris wrote:

> I truly hope that the discussions in this list are not going to dwindle
>off into some twilight realm where we all talk about how much or how little
>we like each individual book in comparison to the others.

 

It’s early days to say where the list will go: I would be more concerned
if members felt constrained by the possibility of flames to withhold their
thoughts. I live in one of those culturally deprived bible-belted areas,
and,
with very few exceptions, this is the closest I get to civilised chat. I
would
hate to feel as if I were a freshman back in seminar, wanting to contribute
but agonizing over whether my opinion is going to get trashed by my tutor.

Maybe it starts by someone saying I don’t like X, but then someone else
asks why not, and the discourse that results might get interesting and yield
new insights.

Enough off-thread stuff from me. Won’t it be something when we all get
our copies of Angelica’s Grotto at the same time!!

Asteroid Lil

On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Sandra Smith wrote:

> From: “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
>
> Enough off-thread stuff from me. Won’t it be something when we all get
> our copies of Angelica’s Grotto at the same time!!

 

we’ll all have a competition to see who can get it read first!

I think what we need our little help-groups for different books. For
example, I know that I need to reread fremder because I am sure I didn’t
get it. I am sure there are things that I was clueless about. Other
people have expressed similiar ‘huh?’ reactions to some of other Hoban
books. I am not in a position to start asking questions about Fremder,
but maybe we can make the list into a bit of a workshop.

Anyway, glad to hear that ‘Manny Rat’ is going to be in the ‘bus, but that
still doesn’t fill my Pig hole 🙂 Or my corona hole for that matter.
These children book publishers need to get their act together and start
publishing books for me *laughs*

I can’t think of any great topics we need to discuss…maybe it will hit
me later.

Chris

“Ah! These Monsters are as stupid as human beings!”
–Detective Shindo in Ghidora, the Three-headed Monster (1964)

Chris La Luna wrote:

>Anyway, glad to hear that ‘Manny Rat’ is going to be in the ‘bus, but that
>still doesn’t fill my Pig hole 🙂

 

Well, Chris, I’m about to make your Pig hole very, very happy. (Why does
this conversation seem increasingly indelicate?) I just got a response from
my contact at IU Press, who says:

>Hi Dave. “The Marzipan Pig” is indeed included in the Omnibus.

 

So there it is, direct from la boca della omnibus. Both Rat and Pig will be
ours–what on earth have we done to deserve such riches?

(New worry–will the Omnibus include the Quentin Blake illustrations? Gee,
it has to, doesn’t it? But I’m scared to ask.)

BTW, I have yet to track down a copy of La Corona, so that’s a pleasure
still ahead of me. But I’ve become a big fan of the Captain Najork
books–it’s Russ at his most Roald Dahl-esque.

Dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note my new address: day_____@_____.com
Ocelot Factory: http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll

Hey, that is fantastic news. The value of the Omnibus just keeps going up
and up for me. As to the illustrations by quinten blake–wow, that is a
good question. I wonder how the story would fare without the
illustrations? Funny, I never thought much of those drawings until I
started seeing other children books illustrated by him and could only
think of the Pig.As to La Corona, definitely check it out–to me it seems most similiar to
Mouse and his Child, though obviously it is it’s own thing and far too
short. I was stuck having to just photocopy the thing from the
library–not a very good way to acquire it since the illustrations are all
in color and very lush.

Anyway, nothing more to add, just getting very excited about the Omnibus.

__,__
/ \
vvvvvvv /|__/|
I /O,O |
I /_____ | /|/| Chris Moon
J|/^ ^ ^ \ | /00 | _//| cam_____@_____.net
|^ ^ ^ ^ |W| |/^^\ | /oo | www.radiks.net/~camoon
\m___m__|_| \m_m_| \mm_|

I would really like to know how many people have experienced the so-so
first time round, but then loved a book the second time round for Hoban.
Somewhere I have discussed my problems with Lion and also Turtle on my
first attempt (I don’t know why, the rest made perfect sense), but found
that Turtle, on a second go, was really fantastic. I suppose it is rather
humbling to find the book getting an upper hand the first time round,
especially when the rest of you (Well Dave et al.) we’re reading Lion and
Turtle when you were 13, but I’m not going to let that deter me. I’ve
just started reading Lion for my second time today, and found the first
few chapters remarkable. I was under the impression for some reason that
much of Hoban’s philosophy didn’t really gestate until Riddley Walker, but
upon rereading Turtle, found that his ideas were expressed no less
strongly in that book–indeed, Turtle is almost a sort of gentle, pastoral
version of Riddley Walker (at least, it is funny thinking about it as
such, and I am all for anything that amuses me). Much to my surprise,
this same sort of thinking–excuse me for not penning a name for Hoban’s
philosophy–seems to be fully manifested in Lion. The chapter where Boaz
first experiences the being-with-the-lion sensation, the visions of the
rectangle of blue sky framed by dark faces; there was nothing at all
embryonic about it, which was my take when I read the book the first time.The most interesting thing that is different here is that it is the only
book (short of Mouse) I can think of that he has written third person (I
don’t remember if Kleinzeit was third person, I’ll need to check), and it
gives it a very different tone. Many things seem more symbollic than
literal, and some actions seem to be more of magic than the real world
(I’m not complaining), giving the entire story an almost fairy tale
quality. If anything, I think Hoban’s style would flourish more as his
books progressed…what I have read so far in Lion is very good, often
poetic, but I think he gets better as he goes, meaning that if you are
like me and just finished rereading pilgermann, Lion can occasionally feel
slightly stilted (but only stilted for Hoban).

I think the only thing so far that has bothered me with this book is an
apparent fascination with Freud that seems to obvious–the whole
castration phobia in the first couple chapters seemed just too cliche for
Hoban, yet perhaps I am reading too much into it. Still, with any book by
Hoban, I am waiting for the magic to happen (whatever magic it is that
Hoban does on paper) and he doesn’t fail to do so in Lion. So it seems I
have been taught my lesson. Perhaps I should just put every book by Hoban
on my favorite book by Hoban list.

Incidentally, for those who did not -get- Pilgermann, I really do suggest
a reread…I enjoyed this book the first time, and was no less inspired by
it the second. It is of course his heaviest book (I think the only
contender is Fremder which to me to have a rather nightmarish quality that
has cropped up in his books in the 90’s) and I think Chris Bell talks
about Pilgermann being the book where Hoban took a quantum leap of sorts
away from the convetions involved in writing a story, and into
improvisational writing where he was really exploring the heart of the
mystery to much more effect than he was able to do in RW. This of course
makes Pilgermann a difficult book, but I think for anyone who has read and
grasped Hoban’s philosophy, a reread should penetrate the ‘what the..?’
impression from the first reading (which is where I still am after reading
Fremder) As to this second reading though, like my first read of Medusa I
have been more or less laid flat by all that the book accomplishes, and
all the thoughts and images it imparts with me. I have no clue where I am
going with this, but would love to hear what others think of the book and
where it took them.

Chris

Bless me, Circle of Kraken, for I have sinned. It has been 5 years since
I’ve read anything
from the Books of Hoban. I blame it on Pilgermann. I thought the great
prophet lost his mind.
Unlike an earlier reviewer, I liked the whimsy of the first books.
Pilgermann caused me to cringe in embarrassment.
“How could he write this kind of stuff?”
I started the book twice, and gave up at the same place. I can’t remember
where I stopped…..you who have
read it probably know the spot. I only remember that I couldn’t take
anymore. My hero had gone crazy.A friend from England sent me a copy of Lion when it was first published. As
a maplover I was enthralled with
the whole idea of the perfect map.
I read Mouse soon afterward, and then every book he wrote as soon as it hit
the market. I gave Lion to my male friends, and Mouse to potential
girlfriends. Mouse worked better than flowers, chocolates, or bad poetry.
(This was the 70’s when it was hip to be a sensitive male).

Anyway, I picked up Pilgermann again. In honor of this group, I will attempt
to finish it at last.
I stopped in the local mega-bookstore (in San Francisco) and they had
nothing by Mr. Hoban. And this is suppose to be a hip town…..where is
society heading?

In a message dated 9/23/99 7:57:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JRS_____@_____.gov writes(re: Pilgermann):<< I started the book twice, and gave up at the same place. I can’t remember
where I stopped…..you who have
read it probably know the spot. I only remember that I couldn’t take
anymore. My hero had gone crazy….>>

This is pretty close to my experience with Pilgermann on the first two or
three cracks at it.

<< Anyway, I picked up Pilgermann again. In honor of this group, I will
attempt
to finish it at last. >>

I am attempting to do the same at Chris’s urging, and I’m pleased to say I’m
finding it a bit more engaging this time. (Or perhaps I myself am more
engaging toward it? ) Anyroad, I’ll post thoughts/questions/reactions as they
arise.

On the subject of the Kraken, I was startled to see it surface (!) in a Ted
Hughes poem I was reading yesterday afternoon: Moonwalking from _The
Birthday Letters_:

“The moon-shadow of a strange dog,
The silent shadow of a dog
That had befriended you. Your eyes
Were in their element
But uncomprehending and
Terrified by it. Like the surfaced Kraken
You took in the round
Of moon and starred sea…”

So, where else in literature does our namesake sea-thing appear? I must
confess to being unfamiliar with it prior to reading _The Medusa Frequency_.
Is its origin literary or mythological?

GNGG, NDZNX, MMPH,
Janis

“That grapefruit! Oh my God, I’ve eaten it.”

From Asteroid LilChris, that was really interesting what you said about Pilgermann
being more stream-of-conscious than earlier books. I have to confess
that when I first read Pilgermann I was not habitually sober, being
given to exotic party substances back then. The book washed over me
without hindrance, as you can imagine. It was a wonderful experience,
although not very analytical in the academic sense. Some years later,
when I had left the partying days behind, I read it again, and derived a
lot of enjoyment from gleaning for references.

This gleaning is something unique for me and Hoban books and it has
gone on ever since I met his ur-lion in the British Museum. Did you know
there was once a secret society of charcoal makers in Italy called the
Carbonari? Just a fact I happened to trip over a year or two ago whilst
looking for something else. His books refuse to remain in the fictional
universe, the universe of fictions. They pop out and say, basically,
Pilgermann here.

What do you know about Tarot cards?

As for Fremder, I too found it difficult at first pass. I know you’re not
just
a science fiction book, I thought. Sure enough, I loaned it to a friend and
she, concordance whiz that she is, gave it back plastered with postits
referencing the Bible, Book of Elijah and Revelations. Fixated as I am
on manifestations of Orpheus, I never would have thought of *that*.

Your thoughts?

John Smith,Of all the countries in the world, I thought California
would be the one place you could find Hoban books.
Here in Florida I don’t expect to find much besides
chicken soup, but jeez, everybody knows that CA
floats several feet off the map!

I can’t in fact figure where in Pilgermann you might
have ground to a halt (see my other post). Was it in
the lion visions, in Pilgermann’s post-castration
delirium, or are you one of those blokes who can’t
read about castration? (joke)

Anyhow, welcome to the group. Day Voll keeps coffee
and donuts at the back of the room.

Asteroid Lil

On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Sandra Smith wrote:

> From: “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
>
> >From Asteroid Lil
>
> Chris, that was really interesting what you said about Pilgermann
> being more stream-of-conscious than earlier books. I have to confess
> that when I first read Pilgermann I was not habitually sober, being
> given to exotic party substances back then. The book washed over me
> without hindrance, as you can imagine. It was a wonderful experience,
> although not very analytical in the academic sense. Some years later,
> when I had left the partying days behind, I read it again, and derived a
> lot of enjoyment from gleaning for references.
>

Yeah, actually I was planning on writing a review of Pilgermann and
billing the book as psychedelic. It does seem the most
stream-of-consciousness, but it is also a very intelligent and
compassionate book while not really having much of a plot. What I have
found is that Pilgermann, while seemingly alienating to many, is perhaps
one of Hoban’s most human books–all the terror and wonder of living is in
there.

 

> This gleaning is something unique for me and Hoban books and it has
> gone on ever since I met his ur-lion in the British Museum. Did you know
> there was once a secret society of charcoal makers in Italy called the
> Carbonari? Just a fact I happened to trip over a year or two ago whilst
> looking for something else. His books refuse to remain in the fictional
> universe, the universe of fictions. They pop out and say, basically,
> Pilgermann here.

 

Yes, all these references can often be wonderful. When I went back and
re-read Turtle, I couldn’t believe all the references I had missed, but
then again, I hadn’t read eliade the first time I read pilgermann. I’ve
never heard of the Carbonari, but a secret society of charcoal makers
sounds wonderful. Does this give some legitamacy to the rather shady
character of the charcoal burners in Riddley Walker?

>
> What do you know about Tarot cards?

 

Mmmm, I’m more of an I-Ching man myself 🙂

>
> As for Fremder, I too found it difficult at first pass. I know you’re not
> just
> a science fiction book, I thought. Sure enough, I loaned it to a friend and
> she, concordance whiz that she is, gave it back plastered with postits
> referencing the Bible, Book of Elijah and Revelations. Fixated as I am
> on manifestations of Orpheus, I never would have thought of *that*.
>
> Your thoughts?
>

Unfortunately I cannot quote the bible fluently enough to probably make
heads or tails out of a lot of the references unless they are very
obvious. Although in passing I made mention to my friends of that line
‘learn the speech of ravens and they will feed you’ and they retorted ‘but
you wouldn’t want to eat what they brought you’ 🙂

********************
One other thought. Does there seem to others to be a break in hoban’s
writing between turtle diary and riddley walker. I mean, sometimes all
his books seem like one thing to me, but there is a break in the sense
that until RW, all his stories are set in relatively conventional settings
and don’t become really really strange, where by RW and after, we often
seem to have multiple universes going on at once, weird languages, the
kraken and the head of orpheus, people getting castrated, the myserious
purple-blue consciousness, people’s heads getting zapped into the black
between the tiny frames of existance…and it keeps going on. The
sentiments that ‘the main character has gone insane’ seems pretty
reasonable until you recognize that it is the same thing that has been
going on in the othre stories, it is just less subtle. I think the
being-with-the-lion experience couldn’t possibly have registered the first
time round because I didn’t really grasp hoban. Now I can see that
characters like Pilermann are the ones who are awake, the ones who are
living the being-with-the-lion, and that world (the real world?) is a
strange and dangerous one–and also a very passionate one. I think it is
very hard to experience that, and then go back to the day to day
mediocrity. It seems that Hoban wants to be-with-the-lion, and he is
urgent about writing of it. So yes, I think all the safety that is in
those first few books had to be thrown out because it is a sort of trip
you need to take the whole way.
Anyway, I’ll stop here.

Chris

“If the world lives to see another century, please remember what
Mothra did for you and the planet you live on.” — Godzilla versus Mothra

>Bless me, Circle of Kraken, for I have sinned. It has been 5 years since
>I’ve read anything
>from the Books of Hoban. I blame it on Pilgermann. I thought the great
>prophet lost his mind.
>Unlike an earlier reviewer, I liked the whimsy of the first books.
>Pilgermann caused me to cringe in embarrassment.
>”How could he write this kind of stuff?”

 

Pilgermann is not a nice book. It is not a happy book. I hope I havn’t
in effect made a blanket statement that everyone should read this book,
because not everyone wants to read books that are not nice or happy. I
think I have praised Hoban somewhere for being willing to grapple with the
stuff he does in Pilgermann, but there are times when one wonders what
others would think if they knew what was going on between the covers of
Pilgermann. But I think it is just as difficult for Hoban to address
these issues as it is for us to read it. I just feel like sometimes one
finds themselves in a place where to follow the route one is on with
honesty and integrity requires the contemplating of some pretty hefty
issues. Pilgermann does just that, and it does it without flinching. If
it makes it any easier, I think the story more or less starts after
Pilgermann meets up with Bembel Rudzuck. Before this point there is a lot
of weirdness that seems to be there mostly to develop a setting which is
alienating. What is going on in Pilgermann’s head is very strange, and he
lives in a very strange world–and his current mode of existance is even
strange. For that we must hear from talking pigs and bears that are
called God. But in between the weirdness are some really amazing
passages–Hoban’s assement that God has moved from creator to doer, from a
he to an it is a fantastic theme that he treats well in this book. But
after Rudzuck shows up, the story seems to really develop–perhaps if
these early chapters are too strange, one might force their way through
them.

By the way, thinking about uncomfortable books, anyone else read
doestoyovsky? I just read notes from the underground and loved it and
hated it at the same time. I needed to read it while at the same time was
afraid to because it made me so uncomfortable. It sounds like pilgermann
makes some people uncomfortable as well.

>I started the book twice, and gave up at the same place. I can’t remember
>where I stopped…..you who have
>read it probably know the spot. I only remember that I couldn’t take
>anymore. My hero had gone crazy.

 

There are a great number of ‘uncomfortable’ spots, anything from his
castration to seeing the radiant image of the phallus of christ being
mortered into a building we’re definitely among some of more uncomfortable
moments. Also, once again, that business with the pig. I found myself
laughing at it but also cringing. I wouldn’t take out a word, but again,
Pilgermann is a tough book.

>A friend from England sent me a copy of Lion when it was first published.
>As a maplover I was enthralled with the whole idea of the perfect map.

 

As said earlier, I am rereading Lion now and am humbled by how great it is
and how much I didn’t get it the first time I read it.

>I read Mouse soon afterward, and then every book he wrote as soon as it
>hit the market. I gave Lion to my male friends, and Mouse to potential
>girlfriends. Mouse worked better than flowers, chocolates, or bad poetry.
>(This was the 70’s when it was hip to be a sensitive male).

 

Why can’t that work today…I just gave medusa to a female friend, maybe
in the 90’s, medusa is better than flowers. I can only hope.

>Anyway, I picked up Pilgermann again. In honor of this group, I will
>attempt to finish it at last.

 

I don’t take any responsiblity for any damages incurred as a direct result
of reading Pilgermann 🙂

>I stopped in the local mega-bookstore (in San Francisco) and they had
>nothing by Mr. Hoban. And this is suppose to be a hip town…..where is
>society heading?

 

Strangely I’ve found multiple copies of all of his books up through (and
including) Medusa, and I’m in the midwest. Now finding his picture books
seems more difficult. I still don’t get why no one published Fremder in
the US. I could probably stick a brick between two covers and get it
published more readily than Fremder. Oh, for those who havn’t read Moment
under the Moment yet, I have seen this on abebooks.com / bibliofind.com
(is there a difference between these two?) a couple times, and I strongly
recommend it to any fans who havn’t picked it up yet. Like all the other
books by Hoban, it is my favorite book by Hoban 🙂

Chris

“Everyone is the source of his or her kind of soup. In a town as big as
London, that’s a lot of soup walking around.” –Russell Hoban, Turtle Diary
(1975)

Thanks to all for these these last few days of postings, which have inspired me
so much! I have half a bookshelf of Hoban (but alas! no Marzipan Pig!), and now
I will also take another run at Pilgermann–too overwhelming last time. And
I’m glad I can make a contribution. I’m always looking for connections, and
here are two:One species of sea turtle is the Olive Riddley…

And a poem by Tennyson:

The Kraken
Below the thunders of the upper deep;
Far far beneath in the abysmal sea,
His ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep
The Kraken sleepeth: faintest sunlights flee
About his shadowy sides: above him swell
Huge sponges of millennial growth and height;
And far away into the sickly light,
From many a wondrous grot and secret cell
Unnumber’d and enormous polypi
Winnow with giant fins the slumbering green.
There hath he lain for ages and will lie
Battening upon huge seaworms in his sleep,
Until the latter fire shall heat the deep;
Then once by men and angels to be seen,
In roaring he shall rise and on the surface die.

the_____@_____.com on 09/25/99 05:48:16 AM

Please respond to the_____@_____.com

To: the_____@_____.com

cc: (bcc: Richard Hoos/VUMC/Vanderbilt)

Subject: [the-kraken] Digest Number 18

—————————————————
The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
For help contact Dave Awl – day_____@_____.com
http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll/rh
————————————————————————

There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in today’s digest:

1. Re: Fremder than Paradise
From: ULTIMATE CHRISMOON <cam_____@_____.net>
2. The 1-800 Pilgerman crisis hot-line
From: ULTIMATE CHRISMOON <cam_____@_____.net>

On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Sandra Smith wrote:

> From: “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
>
> >From Asteroid Lil
>
> Chris, that was really interesting what you said about Pilgermann
> being more stream-of-conscious than earlier books. I have to confess
> that when I first read Pilgermann I was not habitually sober, being
> given to exotic party substances back then. The book washed over me
> without hindrance, as you can imagine. It was a wonderful experience,
> although not very analytical in the academic sense. Some years later,
> when I had left the partying days behind, I read it again, and derived a
> lot of enjoyment from gleaning for references.
>

Yeah, actually I was planning on writing a review of Pilgermann and
billing the book as psychedelic. It does seem the most
stream-of-consciousness, but it is also a very intelligent and
compassionate book while not really having much of a plot. What I have
found is that Pilgermann, while seemingly alienating to many, is perhaps
one of Hoban’s most human books–all the terror and wonder of living is in
there.

 

> This gleaning is something unique for me and Hoban books and it has
> gone on ever since I met his ur-lion in the British Museum. Did you know
> there was once a secret society of charcoal makers in Italy called the
> Carbonari? Just a fact I happened to trip over a year or two ago whilst
> looking for something else. His books refuse to remain in the fictional
> universe, the universe of fictions. They pop out and say, basically,
> Pilgermann here.

 

Yes, all these references can often be wonderful. When I went back and
re-read Turtle, I couldn’t believe all the references I had missed, but
then again, I hadn’t read eliade the first time I read pilgermann. I’ve
never heard of the Carbonari, but a secret society of charcoal makers
sounds wonderful. Does this give some legitamacy to the rather shady
character of the charcoal burners in Riddley Walker?

>
> What do you know about Tarot cards?

 

Mmmm, I’m more of an I-Ching man myself 🙂

>
> As for Fremder, I too found it difficult at first pass. I know you’re not
> just
> a science fiction book, I thought. Sure enough, I loaned it to a friend and
> she, concordance whiz that she is, gave it back plastered with postits
> referencing the Bible, Book of Elijah and Revelations. Fixated as I am
> on manifestations of Orpheus, I never would have thought of *that*.
>
> Your thoughts?
>

Unfortunately I cannot quote the bible fluently enough to probably make
heads or tails out of a lot of the references unless they are very
obvious. Although in passing I made mention to my friends of that line
‘learn the speech of ravens and they will feed you’ and they retorted ‘but
you wouldn’t want to eat what they brought you’ 🙂

********************
One other thought. Does there seem to others to be a break in hoban’s
writing between turtle diary and riddley walker. I mean, sometimes all
his books seem like one thing to me, but there is a break in the sense
that until RW, all his stories are set in relatively conventional settings
and don’t become really really strange, where by RW and after, we often
seem to have multiple universes going on at once, weird languages, the
kraken and the head of orpheus, people getting castrated, the myserious
purple-blue consciousness, people’s heads getting zapped into the black
between the tiny frames of existance…and it keeps going on. The
sentiments that ‘the main character has gone insane’ seems pretty
reasonable until you recognize that it is the same thing that has been
going on in the othre stories, it is just less subtle. I think the
being-with-the-lion experience couldn’t possibly have registered the first
time round because I didn’t really grasp hoban. Now I can see that
characters like Pilermann are the ones who are awake, the ones who are
living the being-with-the-lion, and that world (the real world?) is a
strange and dangerous one–and also a very passionate one. I think it is
very hard to experience that, and then go back to the day to day
mediocrity. It seems that Hoban wants to be-with-the-lion, and he is
urgent about writing of it. So yes, I think all the safety that is in
those first few books had to be thrown out because it is a sort of trip
you need to take the whole way.
Anyway, I’ll stop here.

Chris

“If the world lives to see another century, please remember what
Mothra did for you and the planet you live on.” — Godzilla versus Mothra

>Bless me, Circle of Kraken, for I have sinned. It has been 5 years since
>I’ve read anything
>from the Books of Hoban. I blame it on Pilgermann. I thought the great
>prophet lost his mind.
>Unlike an earlier reviewer, I liked the whimsy of the first books.
>Pilgermann caused me to cringe in embarrassment.
>”How could he write this kind of stuff?”

 

Pilgermann is not a nice book. It is not a happy book. I hope I havn’t
in effect made a blanket statement that everyone should read this book,
because not everyone wants to read books that are not nice or happy. I
think I have praised Hoban somewhere for being willing to grapple with the
stuff he does in Pilgermann, but there are times when one wonders what
others would think if they knew what was going on between the covers of
Pilgermann. But I think it is just as difficult for Hoban to address
these issues as it is for us to read it. I just feel like sometimes one
finds themselves in a place where to follow the route one is on with
honesty and integrity requires the contemplating of some pretty hefty
issues. Pilgermann does just that, and it does it without flinching. If
it makes it any easier, I think the story more or less starts after
Pilgermann meets up with Bembel Rudzuck. Before this point there is a lot
of weirdness that seems to be there mostly to develop a setting which is
alienating. What is going on in Pilgermann’s head is very strange, and he
lives in a very strange world–and his current mode of existance is even
strange. For that we must hear from talking pigs and bears that are
called God. But in between the weirdness are some really amazing
passages–Hoban’s assement that God has moved from creator to doer, from a
he to an it is a fantastic theme that he treats well in this book. But
after Rudzuck shows up, the story seems to really develop–perhaps if
these early chapters are too strange, one might force their way through
them.

By the way, thinking about uncomfortable books, anyone else read
doestoyovsky? I just read notes from the underground and loved it and
hated it at the same time. I needed to read it while at the same time was
afraid to because it made me so uncomfortable. It sounds like pilgermann
makes some people uncomfortable as well.

>I started the book twice, and gave up at the same place. I can’t remember
>where I stopped…..you who have
>read it probably know the spot. I only remember that I couldn’t take
>anymore. My hero had gone crazy.

 

There are a great number of ‘uncomfortable’ spots, anything from his
castration to seeing the radiant image of the phallus of christ being
mortered into a building we’re definitely among some of more uncomfortable
moments. Also, once again, that business with the pig. I found myself
laughing at it but also cringing. I wouldn’t take out a word, but again,
Pilgermann is a tough book.

>A friend from England sent me a copy of Lion when it was first published.
>As a maplover I was enthralled with the whole idea of the perfect map.

 

As said earlier, I am rereading Lion now and am humbled by how great it is
and how much I didn’t get it the first time I read it.

>I read Mouse soon afterward, and then every book he wrote as soon as it
>hit the market. I gave Lion to my male friends, and Mouse to potential
>girlfriends. Mouse worked better than flowers, chocolates, or bad poetry.
>(This was the 70’s when it was hip to be a sensitive male).

 

Why can’t that work today…I just gave medusa to a female friend, maybe
in the 90’s, medusa is better than flowers. I can only hope.

>Anyway, I picked up Pilgermann again. In honor of this group, I will
>attempt to finish it at last.

 

I don’t take any responsiblity for any damages incurred as a direct result
of reading Pilgermann 🙂

>I stopped in the local mega-bookstore (in San Francisco) and they had
>nothing by Mr. Hoban. And this is suppose to be a hip town…..where is
>society heading?

 

Strangely I’ve found multiple copies of all of his books up through (and
including) Medusa, and I’m in the midwest. Now finding his picture books
seems more difficult. I still don’t get why no one published Fremder in
the US. I could probably stick a brick between two covers and get it
published more readily than Fremder. Oh, for those who havn’t read Moment
under the Moment yet, I have seen this on abebooks.com / bibliofind.com
(is there a difference between these two?) a couple times, and I strongly
recommend it to any fans who havn’t picked it up yet. Like all the other
books by Hoban, it is my favorite book by Hoban 🙂

Chris

“Everyone is the source of his or her kind of soup. In a town as big as
London, that’s a lot of soup walking around.” –Russell Hoban, Turtle Diary
(1975)

Further interaction with Ultimate ChrisMund:I asked what you knew of tarot cards because I thought I identified tarot
symbolism in that whole “Brothers Grimm” sequence just after P sets off
on his pilgrimage. The Hanged Man, for example, is a tarot trump card.
In the Marseilles set, the original woodcut images, as in most other decks,
the hanged man hangs by one leg with the other folded so that the figure
describes an inverted number 4. Once I recognized that, the whole
business of being on the road with such a menagerie then seemed to me
like the cross section of a medieval psyche, the archetypes of the time.

As for either this or the chardcoal society of Riddley, I don’t want to say
hey, this is DEFINITELY what this or that means. Rather, we all get to be
on this fantastic scavenger hunt and I just shared some of my clues with
you.
Either Hoban already knew a lot about the Carbonari and why they were
a secret society like Masons, or he knew about another group quite like it,
or else it is just one of those wonderful synchronous facts that enlarges
the
sense of the book.

 

> Unfortunately I cannot quote the bible fluently enough to probably make
> heads or tails out of a lot of the references unless they are very
> obvious. Although in passing I made mention to my friends of that line
> ‘learn the speech of ravens and they will feed you’ and they retorted ‘but
> you wouldn’t want to eat what they brought you’ 🙂
>

Wow! The ravens bit is one of the parts that is out of Elijah!!

> ********************
> One other thought. Does there seem to others to be a break in hoban’s
> writing between turtle diary and riddley walker. I mean, sometimes all
> his books seem like one thing to me, but there is a break in the sense
> that until RW, all his stories are set in relatively conventional settings
> and don’t become really really strange, where by RW and after, we often
> seem to have multiple universes going on at once ….

 

It’s my personal theory that a break occurs. I don’t know exactly where, but
I think the event of the break is what is described in Kleinzeit. But it’s
not
entirely clean cut: the universe is strange in earlier writings. The
universe is
strange.

Asteroid Lil

“It looks bad,” said one of the tadpoles as they disappeared down the
snake’s throat.
“You never know,” said the other. “If we can just get through this, maybe
everything will be all right.” -The Mouse and His Child

There are certainly dozens of echoed themes and images in these books —
here are some I’ve noticed in particular (although I’m not sure this is a
very useful activity):Severed heads (Kleinzeit, R.W., Medusa, Fremder)
Orpheus (Kleinzeit, Medusa)
Lions (Lion of BJ/JB, R.W. [epigram], Pilgermann)
Underground (Kleinzeit, R.W. [“Stoan”])
The colors “pinky-orange” and “purple-blue” (many, can’t remember)
Flickering (Pilgermann, Medusa, Fremder)
Seagull’s eyes (R.W., Turtle Diary)

The Ridley turtle mentioned by Richard is, I think, also mentioned in
Turtle Diary.

Chris asked whether there seems to be a change in focus between Turtle
Diary and Riddley Walker, in terms of going from “relatively conventional
settings” to otherwise. I’m not sure. First, Kleinzeit wasn’t all that
relatively conventional; and The Medusa Frequency I believe was largely
written before Riddley Walker. And the way R.W. was originally written,
judging from the excerpts in the new edition, was far more conventional
than the final result (and not only in terms of spelling). I don’t know if
you’ve read Mr. Rinyo-Clacton’s Offer but it’s set in more or less this
world. Maybe we’re just seeing a wheel coming around.

Other miscellaneous thoughts:

Chris- I read Notes from Underground and Crime and Punishment a little
while ago and definitely got the same kind of valuable discomfort.

Chris again- Lion isn’t the only Hoban novel written in the third person;
Kleinzeit and Mr. Rinyo-Clacton’s Offer are too. But thanks for bringing
this up because I hadn’t realized how many first-person narrators he’s used.

Everyone- Please try to be careful, when responding to long posts, to keep
the quoted material to a minimum and clearly separate it from your
response. The simplest way is something like this–
Eli wrote:

> blah blah blah

This is very helpful to those of us who read the list in digest form,
because if you quote someone else’s whole message it’s easy to miss where
your own message starts. And if you read the digest and respond to that,
PLEASE don’t quote the entire thing!! Sorry, I’m finished griping now.

Eli

On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Sandra Smith wrote:

> From: “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
>
> Further interaction with Ultimate ChrisMund:

 

Wow, I think I should just have my name constantly changing. I try to
make sure it is something different for the next batch of e-mails to keep
everyone guessing 🙂

>
> I asked what you knew of tarot cards because I thought I identified tarot
> symbolism in that whole “Brothers Grimm” sequence just after P sets off
> on his pilgrimage. The Hanged Man, for example, is a tarot trump card.
> In the Marseilles set, the original woodcut images, as in most other decks,
> the hanged man hangs by one leg with the other folded so that the figure
> describes an inverted number 4. Once I recognized that, the whole
> business of being on the road with such a menagerie then seemed to me
> like the cross section of a medieval psyche, the archetypes of the time.

 

This reminds me a lot of the beginning of Schwartz, where the chinese
characters inadvertantly tell a story of their own. Anyone else a big fan
of that story? I enjoyed Moment quite a bit and can only hope Schwartz
makes it into the Omnibus.

>
> As for either this or the chardcoal society of Riddley, I don’t want to say
> hey, this is DEFINITELY what this or that means. Rather, we all get to be
> on this fantastic scavenger hunt and I just shared some of my clues with
> you.

 

I think Hoban, like a few other good authors, knows how to use archetypes
or other vaugely familiar ideas too add fuel to the story, grounding it in
the universal. Bringing in ideas and images from Tarot, or relatively
wide-spread and reoccuring symbols such as the greenman help make the
stories more than just a thing of the moment but often allow for the
stories to have a sub-text which allows us to know more intuitively than
we actually know from what is given in the story. In RW for instance,
there is nothing to say that RW doesn’t just get killed in the next
villiage he visits, but there is something else going on below the surface
such that we know–again intuitively–that that isn’t going to
happen–that RW is more an idea given form than a person. I really don’t
want to say much more about RW because there is far too much in it, and
lots of different interpretations, but I don’t think anyone would argue
that Hoban is using universal themes and archetypes that give us further
insight into the story.

> Either Hoban already knew a lot about the Carbonari and why they were
> a secret society like Masons, or he knew about another group quite like it,
> or else it is just one of those wonderful synchronous facts that enlarges
> the
> sense of the book.

 

I am afraid Hoban is far more well-read than I will ever be. Sometimes it
is humbling 🙂

My original message:

> > ********************
> > One other thought. Does there seem to others to be a break in hoban’s
> > writing between turtle diary and riddley walker. I mean, sometimes all
> > his books seem like one thing to me, but there is a break in the sense
> > that until RW, all his stories are set in relatively conventional settings
> > and don’t become really really strange, where by RW and after, we often
> > seem to have multiple universes going on at once ….
>
> It’s my personal theory that a break occurs. I don’t know exactly where, but
> I think the event of the break is what is described in Kleinzeit. But it’s
> not
> entirely clean cut: the universe is strange in earlier writings. The
> universe is
> strange.
>

 

I have been trying to find a good way to argue this and am about ready to
give up on it. I think lion is probably the least strange of his books
but is plenty odd in it’s own right, while Medusa may seem from the outset
to be normal is no less strange than RW or Pilgermann, it is simply that
the setting makes it seem more comfortable.

> Asteroid Lil
>
> “It looks bad,” said one of the tadpoles as they disappeared down the
> snake’s throat.
> “You never know,” said the other. “If we can just get through this, maybe
> everything will be all right.” -The Mouse and His Child
>

 

Chris

“That’s cheating. You can’t swallow infinity.” –Serpentina
The Mouse and his Child.

On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Eli Bishop wrote:

> From: Eli Bishop <eli_____@_____.net>
>
>
> Chris asked whether there seems to be a change in focus between Turtle
> Diary and Riddley Walker, in terms of going from “relatively conventional
> settings” to otherwise. I’m not sure. First, Kleinzeit wasn’t all that
> relatively conventional; and The Medusa Frequency I believe was largely
> written before Riddley Walker. And the way R.W. was originally written,
> judging from the excerpts in the new edition, was far more conventional
> than the final result (and not only in terms of spelling). I don’t know if
> you’ve read Mr. Rinyo-Clacton’s Offer but it’s set in more or less this
> world. Maybe we’re just seeing a wheel coming around.

 

I think you have a good point here. Probably not a break, more of a
gradient. No, I havn’t read anything after Fremder, but those four books
(RW, Pilgermann, MF and Fremder) all seem to be much more far reaching
trips than the earlier books–that doesn’t mean better, but implied to me
some sort of break, though like I said elsewhere, I am giving up on that
argument 🙂

Basically this entire e-mail is really to ask one question: Medusa
Frequency was largely written before Riddley Walker??? Is that a typo or
am I just ill informed? I though RW was written through the early 70’s up
until it’s completion in 79 or so, I didn’t think Medusa even started
taking form until the mid 80’s. Not that it is a big issue, but now I am
curious about this.

>
> Everyone- Please try to be careful, when responding to long posts, to keep
> the quoted material to a minimum and clearly separate it from your
> response. The simplest way is something like this–
> Eli wrote:
> > blah blah blah
> This is very helpful to those of us who read the list in digest form,
> because if you quote someone else’s whole message it’s easy to miss where
> your own message starts. And if you read the digest and respond to that,
> PLEASE don’t quote the entire thing!! Sorry, I’m finished griping now.

 

Well let me know if this format works. I just respond to one e-mail at a
time, and all the > marks should let you know who said what. If I respond
to multiple people or there are points which appear confusing, I will
definitely be careful to indicate who has said what.

>
> Eli
>

 

__,__
/ \
vvvvvvv /|__/|
I /O,O |
I /_____ | /|/| Chris Moon
J|/^ ^ ^ \ | /00 | _//| cam_____@_____.net
|^ ^ ^ ^ |W| |/^^\ | /oo | www.radiks.net/~camoon
\m___m__|_| \m_m_| \mm_|

I just felt duty-bound to say that it really is worthwhile perservering with
‘Pilgermann’; don’t forget that it’s a pilgrimage and it’s worth getting to
Antioch, which is where Pilgermann’s private Jerusalem happens for him. And
yes, the story really does take off once he meets Bembel Rudzuk.I’ve met and heard from quite a few people who haven’t managed to get
further than the first few chapters. Indeed, I had some problems with it
myself on first reading. But to anyone who’s read all (or most) of the other
novels, you really ought to give RH the benefit of the doubt. Trust him.
He’ll take you to places in your mind you didn’t know existed.

So, Chris, let me be yet another to encourage you to finish ‘Pilgermann’.
You won’t regret it. Life will be richer for ever after. Example: I had my
most vivid ever dream while re-reading Pilgermann about five years ago. I
was an owl, and had a bird’s-eye view of gliding, slowly, over the ruins of
Antioch… Don’t let me bore you with my dreams. The Hidden Lion awaits.

“…There is a mystery that even God cannot fathom,
nor can he give the law of it on two stone tablets.
He cannot speak what there are no words for;
he needs divers to dive into it;
he needs wrestlers to wrestle with it,
singers to sing it, lovers to love it.
He cannot deal with it alone, he must find helpers,
and for this does he blind some and maim others.”
RUSSELL HOBAN, �Pilgermann�.

Perhaps he needs dreamers to dream it for him, too.

Chris Bell

>From: ULTIMATE CHRISMOON <cam_____@_____.net>
>
>Basically this entire e-mail is really to ask one question: Medusa
>Frequency was largely written before Riddley Walker??? Is that a typo or
>am I just ill informed? I though RW was written through the early 70’s up
>until it’s completion in 79 or so, I didn’t think Medusa even started
>taking form until the mid 80’s. Not that it is a big issue, but now I am
>curious about this.

 

Err… perhaps I should have said that I vaguely remembered that Hoban said
something about Medusa being started long before it was finished, and that
this was before R.W.– but probably just before R.W.’s publication, since
as you say that book took a very long time to write. I thought he said
Medusa began soon after Kleinzeit but I certainly could be wrong. This
was, I think, in an interview I read in _Poets & Writers_ which was
accompanied by his essay “Blighter’s Rock.”

In any case, maybe I can save face by just saying that Medusa and Kleinzeit
seem to make a good pair.

Eli

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Eli Bishop wrote:

> From: Eli Bishop <eli_____@_____.net>
>
>
> Err… perhaps I should have said that I vaguely remembered that Hoban said
> something about Medusa being started long before it was finished, and that
> this was before R.W.– but probably just before R.W.’s publication, since
> as you say that book took a very long time to write. I thought he said
> Medusa began soon after Kleinzeit but I certainly could be wrong. This
> was, I think, in an interview I read in _Poets & Writers_ which was
> accompanied by his essay “Blighter’s Rock.”
>
> In any case, maybe I can save face by just saying that Medusa and Kleinzeit
> seem to make a good pair.
>
> Eli

 

Well when and if you find out, let me know. Now I am curious. To me,
Medusa feels as though it only could have been written after RW, but that
is just my gut instinct. I’d like to know what you uncover.

Oh, bibliofind is littered with La Corona’s, you should all go get one.

Chris

>
> > —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> For help contact Dave Awl – day_____@_____.com
> http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll/rh
>
>
>
>

Hey gang,I’ve just added a bunch of things to The Head of Orpheus, including:

–a News update for October
–The Ultimate One’s review of Through the Narrow Gate, Christine Wilkie’s
critical study of Mr. H
–a page for the Omnibus, with complete contents and all the info I’ve
currently got
–photos from the recent UK production of the Carrier Frequency (on the
News page)

check it out!

Dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note my new address: day_____@_____.com
Ocelot Factory: http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll

After several days of silence, I thought I might as well present my little
thought as though it were Basho’s frog:It is fantastic that all these books by Hoban are being reissued and of
those which are not, I am relatively understanding. While Medusa
Frequency is definitely a book for me, it is probably not for many other
people, and what’s more it can be acquired easily used. Yet, where oh
where is Mouse and his Child? Both more difficult to acquire and
seemingly the foundation of all that was to happen later, I cannot
understand why Mouse does not appear in the Omnibus. Is it possible that
someone else has rights to the book even though they do not publish it?
I do not mean to complain, for certainly Indiana University has already
done us a great service, and yet I cannot understand why there is no
Mouse.

Chris

Howdy folks – this was supposed to be my intro to the community, which I composed it in Notepad, and pasted into the post screen- when it appeared for confirmation, it ran lengthily off to the right of the screen. I didn’t want to annoy everyone by having it appear so on the list – does any experienced member have any suggestions for me? You can e-mail me at tjc_____@_____.net if that is more convenient. Thanks! TedActually, when I preview this message in the confirmation screen, it shows the same way…..??

“I’ve never done this kind of thing before, have you?” John Prine

Hi Ted, Welcome to the group.
Actually, I tend to compose my messages directly inside my email program,
and
like as not I am online when I do it because I have a flat fee ISP. Out of
deference
to the plain text rule on this list, I just hit the old ENTER key at the end
of each line.
I got out of the import habit because compuserve, which used to be my ehome,
couldn’t handle it. If you don’t have a flat fee arrangement, you can always
just
grab your mail, disconnect, and do the answers offline. Foo on Notepad.Asteroid Lil

To ORIOS MINCH

> I cannot understand why Mouse does not appear in the Omnibus….

 

As to what got included and what didn’t, maybe the compilers knew that
Hoban-deprived Americans would be grateful for whatever they *could* get.

btw, I only just read your very good commentary on Narrow Gate, and, if
no-one else has mentioned it, I had traced the author earlier: she is at the
University of Warwick in England, but I forget her academic rank.

Asteroid Lil

I’m finally getting around to joining the party. I’ve observed for awhile in order to get the hang of how a list like this works. Thanks to Asteroid Lil for help with posting.By way of who-I-am; I’m 45, work at Plimoth Plantation Museum (lots of connections here with Riddley – old English dialects and folkways (including charcoal making! I’ll be posting a photo to the list of likely interest to you all) – my coworkers are always particularly struck with RW as a result. At the museum I began working ‘in character’, tho I’ve since segued into traditional woodworking, which I also do at home: RW actually provided the name for my business – Heart of the Wood – which suggested itself since I produce the wood for my work by splitting (yet another connection!) trees to directly access the heartwood. Although it has no other pertinence to our topic, I’ll post a link to my website to the list too, just FYI. I am also the museum’s staff photographer, and took the photo of our collier (charcoal maker) sitting rather demonically on top of his smoldering charcoal mound. I’m married to a historian, who’s subject is early American history.

My adult introduction to Mr. Hoban’s work was through RW, after having read the NYT book review – I was familiar with Frances through my younger siblings. It made for me one of those life-long author\reader connections which I have been enjoying ever since. In observing the comments on the list, I have been particularly struck with the comments of two fellow members:

first, from Fred Runk;

<I guess I enjoy the feeling that there are more [Hoban books] out there and that strange and unique reading experiences await me.>

I had heretofore refrained from diving into the entire corpus, or, for a long time, even knowing what the entire corpus consisted of (of course, Head of Orpheus changed all that, and now I’m busy hunting up the works missing from my collection!). There’s a powerful mystery involved in RH’s works, which includes the discovery of them as well as the reading of them. And then there was always the mystery of the author himself: how could anyone write these books?; how could the author of those beautiful children’s books also be the author of these amazing, harrowing, (and also beautiful – tho sometimes in a very different way!) adult works?

and secondly, this from Chris Moon:

<What I have found is that Pilgermann, while seemingly alienating to many, is perhaps one of Hoban’s most human books–all the terror and wonder of living is in there.>
Again, my feelings exactly about all of RH’s work. The full range of human experience is unflinchingly explored, and while the pain and suffering described can be harrowing, there is always a really humane sense of the bottom-line positive reality of life and living, of writing and thinking and loving and losing – of all the things that make a life worth living.

Well, enough for the moment! I’m glad to be a part of the community here – please bear with me if I don’t have the on-line protocols for postings figured out quite yet – I hope that this gets to the list in a readable fashion.

Ted Curtin

Sorry about that folks! My first message appeared normally in the digest sent
to me via e-mail, so I posted todays message the same way. I only just now
visited the list to find that it apppears there in the horribly-strung-out
format……..Don’t bother trying to read it – I’ll re-format and re-post it.

Ted

Once again, apologies for yesterday’s posting debacle. This post seems to be
in order, tho I still don’t quite get the why’s and wherefore’s.Text of original post follows:

I’m finally getting around to joining the party. I’ve observed for awhile in
order to get the hang of how a list like this works. Thanks to Asteroid Lil
for help with posting.

By way of who-I-am; I’m 45, work at Plimoth Plantation Museum (lots of
connections here with Riddley – old English dialects and folkways (including
charcoal making! I’ll be posting a photo to the list of likely interest to
you all) – my coworkers are always particularly struck with RW as a result.
At the museum I began working ‘in character’, tho I’ve since segued into
traditional woodworking, which I also do at home: RW actually provided the
name for my business – Heart of the Wood – which suggested itself since I
produce the wood for my work by splitting (yet another connection) trees to
directly access the heartwood. Although it has no other pertinence to our
topic, I’ll post a link to my website to the list too, just FYI. I am also the
museum’s staff photographer, and took the photo of our collier (charcoal
maker) sitting rather demonically on top of his smoldering charcoal mound.
I’m married to a historian, who’s subject is early American history.

My adult introduction to Mr. Hoban’s work was through RW, after having read the
NYT book review – I was familiar with Frances through my younger siblings. It
made for me one of those life-long author\reader connections which I have been
enjoying ever since. In observing the comments on the list, I have been
particularly struck with the comments of two fellow members:

first, from Fred Runk;
<I guess I enjoy the feeling that there are more [Hoban books] out there and
that strange and unique reading experiences await me.>

I had heretofore refrained from diving into the entire corpus, or, for a long
time, even knowing what the entire corpus consisted of (of course, Head of
Orpheus changed all that, and now I’m busy hunting up the works missing from my
collection!). There’s a powerful mystery involved in RH’s works, which
includes the discovery of them as well as the reading of them. And then there
was always the mystery of the author himself: how could anyone write these
books?; how could the author of those beautiful children’s books also be the
author of these amazing, harrowing, (and also beautiful – tho sometimes in a
very different way!) adult works?

and secondly, this from Chris Moon:

<What I have found is that Pilgermann, while seemingly alienating to many, is
perhaps one of Hoban’s most human books–all the terror and wonder of living
is in there.>

Again, my feelings exactly about all of RH’s work. The full range of human
experience is unflinchingly explored, and while the pain and suffering
described can be harrowing, there is always a really humane sense of the
bottom-line positive reality of life and living, of writing and thinking and
loving and losing – of all the things that make a life worth living.

Well, enough for the moment! I’m glad to be a part of the community here –
please bear with me if I don’t have the on-line protocols for postings figured
out quite yet – I hope that this gets to the list in a readable fashion.

Ted Curtin

On 2 Oct 1999 tjc_____@_____.net wrote:

> From: tjc_____@_____.net
>
> and secondly, this from Chris Moon:
>
> <What I have found is that Pilgermann, while seemingly alienating to many, is
> perhaps one of Hoban’s most human books–all the terror and wonder of living
> is in there.>
>
> Again, my feelings exactly about all of RH’s work. The full range of human
> experience is unflinchingly explored, and while the pain and suffering
> described can be harrowing, there is always a really humane sense of the
> bottom-line positive reality of life and living, of writing and thinking and
> loving and losing – of all the things that make a life worth living.
>

Yes, this is much of what I wrote Hoban when I e-mailed him. I find his
writing is empowering, which does not mean it is happy or builds
confidence but that it confirms something about living and the nature of
living, which brings be back to Chris Bell’s favorite quote:

“…There is a mystery that even God cannot fathom,
nor can he give the law of it on two stone tablets.
He cannot speak what there are no words for;
he needs divers to dive into it;
he needs wrestlers to wrestle with it,
singers to sing it, lovers to love it.
He cannot deal with it alone, he must find helpers,
and for this does he blind some and maim others.”

There are a lot of great quotes in Pilgermann, this is one of them. I
hope Dave puts this up on the page because it is one of Hoban’s best.

Chris

Dear Kraken,
I know I’m not the first to note this, but it seems there are a number of
references in the beyond the thunderdome mad max movie to language mr. hoban
uses in riddley walker…
“aunty” entitity rules bater town with an iron fist.
“master” is the “big” and “blaster” is the “little”.
Bartertown uses pig shit as a source of power.
the lost tribe of children are waiting for “Mr. Walker”
When story telling they speak of ” a time back way back”.
Has anyone ever seen any refernce to the similarities or to the authors of
the movie giving credit to mr. hoban/riddley walker influences?
thanks for any comments.
pvm_____@_____.com

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 PVM_____@_____.com wrote:

> From: PVM_____@_____.com
>
> Dear Kraken,
> I know I’m not the first to note this, but it seems there are a number of
> references in the beyond the thunderdome mad max movie to language mr. hoban
> uses in riddley walker…
> “aunty” entitity rules bater town with an iron fist.
> “master” is the “big” and “blaster” is the “little”.
> Bartertown uses pig shit as a source of power.
> the lost tribe of children are waiting for “Mr. Walker”
> When story telling they speak of ” a time back way back”.
> Has anyone ever seen any refernce to the similarities or to the authors of
> the movie giving credit to mr. hoban/riddley walker influences?
> thanks for any comments.
> pvm_____@_____.com

 

I thought about the ‘aunty’ one, and am not sure about that and some of
the other ‘connections’. It is always hard to reverse engineer these
things without knowing for sure. But once max gets to the children it is
a dead giveaway. Actually the movie almost has the impression of being a
mad max film until he gets to the children, then riddley walker takes
over. I wish that made it a better film–not that it’s bad but I think a
real movie of Riddley Walker would be so much better (yet at the same time
I am hoping they never make one.) On the whole, Beyond Thunderdome (can’t
we get beyond thunderdome? *grins*) feels more like the 90’s Japanese
Godzilla flicks where they do all these homages to hollywood movies and
sometimes they are funny and other times they are just awful. Anyway,
Thunderdome comes off as a strange film because of it, one that seems kind
of unsure of its identity. Still, it is good to see that RW had so much
influence on a director–enough so to turn mad max into a weird RW hybrid.
Now maybe this next mad max film they are working on will be a homage to
Pilgermann 🙂

Chris

“If the world lives to see another century, please remember what
Mothra did for you and the planet you live on.” — Godzilla versus Mothra

 

>
> > —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> For help contact Dave Awl – day_____@_____.com
> http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll/rh
>
>
>
>

Dear Chris
Thanks for your comments and insights.
I’m no big fan of mad max, but you are right once you get to the lost kids
segment the movie certainly takes a RW twist.
I agree that on one hand it would be great to see rw as a film, yet hard to
convey the intracacies of the larng wedge.
thanks again.
pvm_____@_____.com

Hello everybody,I have just been reading in the latest New Yorker magazine about
how the internet is beginning to play a role in bookbuying not
unlike that of the old timey local independent bookstore. The
anticipated consequence of this is the demise of the blockbuster
novel/author as a controlling economic force in book distribution.

Of course I read this thinking of us all the way.

They described how entities like amazon.com have bots which
“learn” about our tastes according to our buying history (and how
this can go wrong). But there are also some websites around which
are doing disinterested research in taste patterns.

What this would come to in a case like the-kraken is: Assume
that, for most if not all of us, Hoban is the favorite author. Now,
how many of us might have a second or third author in common,
and who might they be? If there are extreme disparities outside
the set of Hoban admirers, what does the map look like? How
would this map enlarge upon and inform about Hobaniphilia?

Is there anybody with stats or polling talent in the group?

Just an idea….
Asteroid Lil

> From: “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
>

<snip>

> They described how entities like amazon.com have bots which
> “learn” about our tastes according to our buying history (and how
> this can go wrong). But there are also some websites around which
> are doing disinterested research in taste patterns.

 

Actually a friend of mine gets the most comical recommendations. I was
buying some psychology texts and also Godzilla books at the same time and
trying to get Amazon to say something like ‘people who bought psychology
books by such and such an author also bought: godzilla’ Unfortunately
they arn’t quite that stupid, but they make some really odd mistakes 🙂

>
> What this would come to in a case like the-kraken is: Assume
> that, for most if not all of us, Hoban is the favorite author. Now,
> how many of us might have a second or third author in common,
> and who might they be? If there are extreme disparities outside
> the set of Hoban admirers, what does the map look like? How
> would this map enlarge upon and inform about Hobaniphilia?
>

I see where you are coming from and it follows that someone who reads
Hoban also reads other books and that they probably arn’t steven king or
daniel steel. The problem at least for myself is that when I was reading
tons of adult lit way back in HS I got scared off of a lot of it–it
seemed really pathetic and after that I became incredibly selective about
what I read, typically sticking to one author for a long time until I had
completely tapped them out. The other problem for me anyway is that adult
fiction is only a small part of what I read, with more time often going to
either non-fiction or children lit. So anyway, sure I’ll blast my tastes
all over the internet, why not?

> Is there anybody with stats or polling talent in the group?

 

Start tabulating (this is a pathetically short list, and all pretty well
known):
before I got into Hoban I was very much into Huxley which more or less
read to reading lots of non-fic. Enjoyed Eyeless in Gaza tremendously.
Also Salinger, notably Franny and Zooey.
When I found Hoban was name dropping Melville quite a bit (and that is a
big load to be dropping here and there), I read through Moby Dick and
enjoyed it tremendously. Those who havn’t read the book and enjoyed
pilgermann might enjoy this a lot too, there are definitely some parallels
and it is very humorous.
I revisited Lovecraft after (once again) Hoban started name dropping him
and found that the second time round he was really fantastic. Of course a
number of his stories are rather shabby, but Lovecraft along with everyone
else on this list so far are authors who seem primarily interested in
consciousness. You’d think that all stories would be about consciousness
in one way or another, but it seems like very few of them are.
Wow, if I was only listing books that I didn’t like I could make a very
very long list, but this maybe is a good example of how little I have
found that I really enjoyed. You can imagine that with only four or five
authors of adult fic I really enjoyed, finding Hoban was just amazing.
Oh, and as a sort of footnote to adult fic, I guess I do really have an
appetite for sci fi short stories. So many sci fi novels don’t work
because the authors typically don’t understand character development and
so forth, but limit them to a short story and often you can find something
rather enjoyable…well sometimes.
Non-fic:
Hmmm, one of the most rewarding things I’ve read short of Hoban in the
last few years was actually cruising through D.T. Suzuki’s book on Zen and
Japanese culture. Of course reading almost anything from the old
Bollignen (sp?) press can be fun (and Hoban also name drops these from
time to time) but I find Suzuki is just amazingly rewarding to read, even
for fun 🙂
Children’s lit–this explanation is getting old, but I found Hoban because
in 1995 I was basically rediscovering children’s lit and trying to find
things which I should have read but hadn’t. Ironically I came upon The
Mouse in his Child because of the proximity of its review to a review of
one of o’brien’s books who I was collecting info for an informative web
page on. The title stuck in my head so I picked it up at a used book
store for $1. Here are some of the other children’s lit books I like (for
whatever it is worth)–
As I have said in far too many other places, The Moomin books by Tove
Jansson are fantastic and I could easily see Hoban fans actually drifting
over to these. There is a lot of humor and characters are archetypal.
Fortunately Jansson wrote a lot of these. It isn’t as dark as Mouse
obviously, but what’cha gonna do? Some of the early moomin books actually
are among the happiest books ever written, so you might want to be careful
if you have a heart condition 🙂
As said before, I am something of a Robert O’Brien fan (Mrs. Frisby and
the rats of NIMH, Z for Zachariah, etc.) in part because when you are ten
years old, this is some of the best pretentous sci-fi you can read. I am
still amazed that someone can take Eisley’s naturalistic writing along
with paranoia about the bomb and turn it into cuddly children’s
literature. This is probably more a closet book than anything I could see
hoban fans backtracking for, but eh, what the hell. I blame these books
directly for my fetish with bad science fiction (ie Zardoz, pick your 50’s
giant monster movie, etc…)
Now days I’m more into ‘classic’ children’s lit, recently rereading wind
in the willows (always a favorite) and now getting more into what is
really not even children’s lit at all (let’s call it proto children’s lit)
meaning things like the Uncle Remus Tales, the Grimm fairy tales, Hans
Christian Anderson’s tales, etc. And of course, if you take that back far
enough your basically reading mythology.

I am sure someone has a much more representative list than mine
instead of just ‘Chris’s (ultimate?) closet’, and probably a much longer
list to boot–not that the list couldn’t be longer, it just doesn’t seem
worthwhile to add things I’m not enthusiastic about. I wish I could tell
you about a lot of other authors I like just as much as Hoban but I can’t
say I know of any authors that really ‘do it for me’ like ‘the H man’
*laughs*

Anyway, this is kind of the flip side of a question I’ve been wanting to
throw at the list, and since I’ve already splattered my idiosyncratic
tastes all over e-space, why not progress directly there? See my next
e-mail!

>
> Just an idea….
> Asteroid Lil
>

Chris

“And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over
Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his
grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.” Jonah 4:6.

> > —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> For help contact Dave Awl – day_____@_____.com
> http://www.suba.com/~dayvoll/rh
>
>
>
>

(continued in some form from that last e-mail)The last e-mail essentially proposed that hoban fans might have similar
tastes in books, taking as a base assumption that an undisclosed property
which is in some way responsible for the similarity in tastes between
Hoban fans (ie, whatever it is that makes a person like hoban books could
also influence their tastes similarly in other mediums.) What has been
going through my head is whether or not Hoban fans (and even Hoban) would
mostly fall into a fairly tight distribution on the Miers Briggs
inventory. I am sure most of you probably know what this is, and won’t
say much beyond it being a system for catagorizing personality types in
accord with a basic premise about personality put forth in Jung’s book
‘Personality Types’.
The reason this idea keeps cropping up is because of the frequency in
which I find some thought I was pondering has already been written of and
examined by Hoban. Admittedly, Hoban more or less states that these ideas
are in us from the start, and we are just discovering them, but it was
disturbing the first couple times I came across something in Hoban’s
writing that more or less seemed like my own thoughts albeit written so
much better than I could ever hope for 🙂 Pairing this with real life
parallels I’ve seen with people I’ve known to have the same personality
type as mine (occasionally prompting me to express ‘ah, there is another
me!’), it seems rational to ponder this notion that Hoban as well as many
of his fans are of a specific personality type, and it is because of this
that he communicates so well with them. I would further speculate that
Hoban is also very close to writing personality specific literature–an
odd concept. I mean, there are simply people I know that Hoban would be
wasted on (hopefully that doesn’t sound elitist). If we’re thinking miers
briggs, I really can’t imagine Sensers (versus intuitives) getting into
Hoban, because to someone who’s not using (or not favoring) intuition,
Hoban isn’t going to make any sense. The connections are not tangible
ones that can be grasped. I would further guess that Hoban is not the
trip for Extroverts, but (and I admit that I am cruel to extroverts)
reading as a whole may not be Extroverts bag.

So to sum up:
-I am wondering if Hoban is of one of those INxx personalities, and I
could possibly try to guess more specificially.
-I am wondering if almost everyone on the list is one of those INxx
personalities.
-I am wondering if I can get everyone on the list to hit one of those
rather skimpy kiersey indicators on the web that gives a rough idea of the
miers briggs score. The we can have fun exchanging them 🙂
-I am wondering if people are afraid to talk about their miers briggs
because they are too personal (!!)

Ok, enough of this.

Chris

****************************************************************
A dangerous toy. This toy is being made for the extreme priority
the good looks. The little part which suffocates when the sharp
part which gets hurt is swallowed is contained generously. Only
the person who can take responsibility by itself is to play.

In a message dated 10/5/99 11:38:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
cam_____@_____.net writes:<< So to sum up:
-I am wondering if Hoban is of one of those INxx personalities, and I
could possibly try to guess more specificially.
-I am wondering if almost everyone on the list is one of those INxx
personalities.
-I am wondering if I can get everyone on the list to hit one of those
rather skimpy kiersey indicators on the web that gives a rough idea of the
miers briggs score. The we can have fun exchanging them 🙂
-I am wondering if people are afraid to talk about their miers briggs
because they are too personal (!!)

Ok, enough of this.

Chris >>

Interesting…. and not too personal — to me, anyway. I’m a Meyers-Briggs
INFJ. So I guess I fit in to your predicted list pattern, Chris. (Except I
*have* been known to read Stephen King… may I still stay?) 🙂

In response to Lil’s author survey, put me down for Nabokov, John Irving, and
Dickens. Hell, put me down for Stephen King too, if you like. His Dark
Tower series is something I’ve been following admiring for over ten years
now.

-Janis (who draws the line at Danielle Steele, at least)

“Be your own black dog and your own ardship.”

Okay, I’m an IXTJ, and my favorite authors other than Hoban (based on who I
go back and re-read the most) are Jorge Luis Borges, George Eliot, William
Shakespeare, and Olaf Stapledon. Go figure.==
Evelyn C. Leeper
eve_____@_____.com
http://www.geocities.com/evelynleeper
“Personally, I’m no fan of Oprah. But if she can use television to get
America to read, she has accomplished a feat more daunting than Hannibal
moving elephants over the Alps.” –Barnet Sherman

First, I don’t know what my Miers Briggs score would be and frankly, I
doubt if it would be that informative. Paper-and-pen tests tend to be only
vaguely suggestive at best.My reading tastes: my friends say my reading tastes are very wide and
inclusive. My enemies say that I obviously have no taste whatsoever since
I read such a wide variety of stuff. <G>

Favorite writers? Tolkien, Dostoyevsky, Austen, Mann, Walter van Tilburg
Clark, Kim Stanley Robinson, Gene Wolfe, Russell Hoban, PD James, Basho,
Robert Frost today. Tomorrow?….

Favorite types are–

the classics–Dostoyevsky, Mann, Austen, Conrad, Hardy….;

some poetry (strong interest now in Japanese haiku and Chinese poetry from
the Tang era), Frost and Eliot and Dickinson;

Science Fiction (I also am awaiting, not too patiently, for Dark Tower V to
appear;

mysteries–primarily police procedurals, especially if they’re from the
Yard, and of course Miss Marple;

what used to be called natural science and/or science writings, include
Joseph Wood Krutch and Loren Eiseley here, and anything that purports to
make sense of this extremely weird universe, or so it appears to me;

and essays by anyone who writes well and has an interesting point to make.

If you want a Miers Briggs score, tell me where to get one and I’ll get you
one. <G>

-=Fred=-

Stillness:
The sound of the petals
Sifting Down together.
– Chora –

email: fre_____@_____.com

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
wrote:

>Assume
>that, for most if not all of us, Hoban is the favorite author. Now,
>how many of us might have a second or third author in common,
>and who might they be? If there are extreme disparities outside
>the set of Hoban admirers, what does the map look like? How
>would this map enlarge upon and inform about Hobaniphilia?

 

I think that this is an interesting and amusing idea (but I’m the
sort who would). I have already been surprised to find that a
fellow list member is an Elvis Costello fan (as am I ), which I
never would have expected. I know that it is not directly on-topic,
but I find these quirks of human nature of some interest – an
interest that is a feature of Mr. Hoban’s work too in a way.
I imagine that we’d find a strange combination of common
threads and completely disparate fragments. Anyway, I’d be
willing to compile a short list of authors, musicians and whatever
on my end. Perhaps this is what the ‘surveys’ section of the list
is for.

Chris Moon,If you know one could you please post the URL of a site where
one can be tested. Make it a site where I don’t have to join a
religion afterward 😉

Thanks for your response to my hesitant suggestion: you have
put it in concrete form and stimulated some interesting responses.
I will indeed tabulate.

Of course, having made the suggestion, I have to put my own
preferences on the table as well.

So, apart from Hoban himself, who keeps me coming back to
re-read their books? Or whose words suddenly dope-slap me
upside the head as I stand at the sink washing dishes?

There’s Neal Stephenson, the only other writer besides RH
whose books I give away and re-purchase. Jane Austen.
Henry James. Philip K. Dick. Bill Bryson. Tolstoy and
Dostoevsky, Mark Twain!, Umberto Eco. Ursula LeGuin.
I will think of a bazillion others as soon as I hit the SEND
button. Brian Aldiss.

As for categories, I regularly shake down the mystery
section of the local franchise bookstore, and maintain a
membership to the SF book club. I’m a sucker for the
true adventure stuff like Perfect Storm and Into Thin Air.

Actually, I am blessed or cursed with a high reading speed
and a reading addiction. I just re-joined a book club purely
because they sold me 11 books for about $15.00; I need
to have a cache of unread books in the house. So I have read
a lot of dreck in my time, as well as a lot of books that were
the sole, brilliant product of the otherwise obscure writer.

I look forward to what the others have to say, and will publish
firt-pass results when all votes are in.

Lil

On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Sandra Smith wrote:

> From: “Sandra Smith” <ast_____@_____.com>
>
> Chris Moon,
>
> If you know one could you please post the URL of a site where
> one can be tested. Make it a site where I don’t have to join a
> religion afterward 😉

 

Go to:
http://www.keirsey.com/cgi-bin/keirsey/newkts.cgi

Since it seems to be a day for splattering your most private stuff on the
net (ok, it hasn’t gotten that personal) I’m an INFP, surprised there
havn’t been more.

>
> Thanks for your response to my hesitant suggestion: you have
> put it in concrete form and stimulated some interesting responses.
> I will indeed tabulate.
>

 

Well that is what being ultimate is all about 🙂 Actually I had this
question in my mind for a while and was procrastinating and then saw your
e-mail and figure I’d throw in my 2 cents.

> There’s Neal Stephenson, the only other writer besides RH
> whose books I give away and re-purchase.

 

Who?

Jane Austen.

> Henry James. Philip K. Dick. Bill Bryson. Tolstoy and
> Dostoevsky, Mark Twain!, Umberto Eco. Ursula LeGuin.
> I will think of a bazillion others as soon as I hit the SEND
> button. Brian Aldiss.
>

I like Dick but he wasn’t really a very good author. Brilliantly
creative, but maybe if he hadn’t benn so busy composing at 80 words a
minute writing most of his books on speed, his output might have been a
little better crafted–its really the only thing that ever kept me from
listing him as a favorite author.

Why doesn’t anyone list more children literature? Adult books will
stagnate your brain with prolonged exposure 🙂

Chris

“Only the infinity of the depths of a man’s mind can really tell the story!”
–Glen or Glenda (1953)

Hello everyone
I am new to this list and I need some advice. I am doing a presentation on
The Mouse and His Child. I am going to trace the motif of the journey in the
book (related to the motif of the journey in American literature in general)
and discuss some of the multi-layered meanings and perspectives which are
presented. Can any give me any hints?
Thanks,
Liz