Someone has just written in to the Some-Poasyum enquiries email with the
following:This morning, at a car boot sale, I bought Ace Dragon Ltd by Russell Hoban
for my son, when I got home I realised that it was a proof only copy.
Before I read it to my son and allow him to turn the pages I just wanted to
make sure it wasn’t a rare copy. I have tried to find a similar one on the
internet but the front cover has a different picture. Mine has an Orange
front cover, in between the writing pages there are blank ones and at the
back it says ‘Proof Only provisional publication dated Oct 30 1980″.

Does anyone have any comments or ideas about the value, rarity etc of this
edition which I can impart to the enquirer?

In fact maybe this will instigate a whole “Rare Russ” thread…

Many thanks in advance,
Richard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi RichardThanks for your comment and for pointing out omissions and the false
date. As regards the term postmodern, you are right that most of Russ’s
novels are postmodern, except Lion and Turtle Diary. Using the
adjective for Fremder is not meant to suggest that this novel is
postmodern whereas the other ones aren’t, but it serves to avoid the
expression science fiction novel, which Fremder isn’t really despite
its setting in the future. Of course it would have been possible to
write, simply, “a novel set in the future”, but I think potential
readers will profit from being prepared for postmodern narrative
features such as the blurring of the borderline between fiction and
reality, the special narrative situation which draws attention to the
story-telling itself and to a certain degree also involves the reader,
or a great number of quotations. The thing is, you have to reduce
descriptions to the maximum and use such terms whether or not you like
them, because when you write such an entry, you are assigned an upper
limit of words.

The entry on Russ belongs to the longest possible category, by the way,
i.e. for the Literary Encyclopedia he is clearly a writer of substance.
That’s no news for Krakenistas, of course, but it’s nice that Russ
finally begins to get the recognition he deserves beyond the circle of
his fans.

Best

Yvonne

Am 31.07.2005 um 17:00 schrieb Richard Cooper:

> Speaking as someone who’s been struggling with both (thought)cats and
> bags
> for several years, I sympathise. I’d also like to say that I think
> Alida and
> Yvonne’s article is superb – surely the most thorough Hoban overview
> I’ve
> read anywhere. The only imperfections I noticed were that the Mouse
> and His
> Child film was made in 1977, not 1991, and you didn’t mention that
> Russ was
> decorated for his WW2 service. Also, (more of a subjective point) you
> describe Fremder as a “postmodern” novel, but, without wishing to sound
> glib, aren’t all his books postmodern to some extent?
>
> Thanks again for all your hard work on this piece!
>
> Richard
>

Hi All,Thanks to many of you for your comments on the now-posted overview of
Russ’ work at Literary Encyclopedia, on line (click on “People,” then on
“H”).* The word count allotted was 2500 words; we went quite a bit over,
but the joy of electronic documents is that there’s a lot of leeway. Still,
it was tough to make the entry even as compact as it is–and there are
omissions–Yvonne pointed out I clean forgot to mention The Trokeville Way,
and I put in a wrong date or two. The errors are mine, not Yvonne’s. I
don’t know how much amending we can do–the editors say, basically, get in
line, so it may be a while before corrections are made. I’m a tad
embarrassed that the header states Russ is active in North America–I did
also put U.K., Europe, English-reading countries–and even that doesn’t
tell it all, because of course Russ has been translated.

Thank you, Roland and Richard, also for corrections, and Hugh for the
feedback. Must express sincere relief that, except for the occasional (and
hopefully to be fixed) inaccuracy, the piece passes muster with you.

Best to you from the Rockies,
alida

* British or American punctuation and spelling?…while the chief editor is
American, the other editors are British and they kindly re-punctuated and
re-spelled what I’d overlooked. They did diddle a bit with the prose. I had
what I thought was a great reference to Swift’s famous understatement: “Saw
a man flayed alive today. You can’t imagine how it altered his
appearance…for the worse.” I used the “…for the worse” bit, but the
editors took it out.

At 09:20 AM 7/31/2005, you wrote:

>Hi Richard
>
>Thanks for your comment and for pointing out omissions and the false
>date. As regards the term postmodern, you are right that most of Russ’s
>novels are postmodern, except Lion and Turtle Diary. Using the
>adjective for Fremder is not meant to suggest that this novel is
>postmodern whereas the other ones aren’t, but it serves to avoid the
>expression science fiction novel, which Fremder isn’t really despite
>its setting in the future. Of course it would have been possible to
>write, simply, “a novel set in the future”, but I think potential
>readers will profit from being prepared for postmodern narrative
>features such as the blurring of the borderline between fiction and
>reality, the special narrative situation which draws attention to the
>story-telling itself and to a certain degree also involves the reader,
>or a great number of quotations. The thing is, you have to reduce
>descriptions to the maximum and use such terms whether or not you like
>them, because when you write such an entry, you are assigned an upper
>limit of words.
>
>The entry on Russ belongs to the longest possible category, by the way,
>i.e. for the Literary Encyclopedia he is clearly a writer of substance.
>That’s no news for Krakenistas, of course, but it’s nice that Russ
>finally begins to get the recognition he deserves beyond the circle of
>his fans.
>
>Best
>
>Yvonne
>
>Am 31.07.2005 um 17:00 schrieb Richard Cooper:
>
> > Speaking as someone who’s been struggling with both (thought)cats and
> > bags
> > for several years, I sympathise. I’d also like to say that I think
> > Alida and
> > Yvonne’s article is superb – surely the most thorough Hoban overview
> > I’ve
> > read anywhere. The only imperfections I noticed were that the Mouse
> > and His
> > Child film was made in 1977, not 1991, and you didn’t mention that
> > Russ was
> > decorated for his WW2 service. Also, (more of a subjective point) you
> > describe Fremder as a “postmodern” novel, but, without wishing to sound
> > glib, aren’t all his books postmodern to some extent?
> >
> > Thanks again for all your hard work on this piece!
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
>
>
>
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Alida Allison, Professor
Center for the Study of Children’s Literature
English and Comparative Literature Dept.
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-8140
(619) 594-5443 (messages)
(619) 594-4998 (FAX)

WEB SITE FOR THE CHILDREN’S LITERATURE PROGRAM: www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~childlit
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———-
“You must learn something of my philosophy. Think only of the past
as its remembrance gives you pleasure.”
Elizabeth Bennet to Darcy, Pride and
Prejudice

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Anthony,
sorry about causing confusion with my landmarks. You’re right, Maiden
Castle is definetely from Her name Was Lola and not from Amaryllis.
Richard, thank you for correcting the Maze reference. I really
thought it was the one at Saffron Walden. Nevertheless I’ll post some
more landmarks for Google Earth to the file section. I think I’ve
spotted out a very special sphinx in the heart of Paris, her name is
Léonie… Enjoy and correct, please 😉
Alida and Yvonne, great work with the Literary Encyclopedia. I’ve
done a very little entry for the german wikipedia (Yvonne, feel free
tho add or correct the entry. As far only one anonymous co-worker
added the Francis books).
Best, Olaf— In the_____@_____.com, “Anthony Davis” &lt_____@_____.>
wrote:

> Dear Richard, Thanks for intercepting that message to Olaf and
> responding to it with your customary thoroughness. (I felt sure

that I

> couldn’t have missed a reference to a landmark that, for a change,

I

> know, and I’m glad that looking into this point has refreshed your

view

> of the novel.)
>
> Maybe I’m mistaken, but I found when I read it that Amaryllis

seemed to

> have either some much shorter chapters, or, at least, greatly more

of

> them than I was used to from the Hoban canon. Oddly, the experience

for

> me was not to hasten me on through the book (as it sometimes can

be,

> when there is the prospect of squeezing in a chapter in spare

moments,

> and, spurred by one’s resultant progress, one makes time to squeeze
> others in, much as is happning with Moby Dick at the moment):

instead,

> it made me want to leave gaps of up to a day at a time to let each
> one ‘sink in’.
>
>
> * * * Please avert your eyes if you’ve not read it, as this comment
> might tell you, albeit hintingly, more than you want to know yet *

* *

>
>
> Amaryllis was, then, for me, much more of a meditative and

reflective

> read, but I do recall that I found myself marvelling at whether

Peter

> Diggs was so lacking in imagination that he did not/could not see

for

> so long (i.e. did not see beforehand) the nature of what it was

that

> caused the major players to be linked. I’d be interested to know

what

> happened with others with this seeming tendency for shorter

chapters…

Hello,This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the the-kraken
group.

File : /Google Earth Locations/Beachy Head.kmz
Uploaded by : noctylus <nex_____@_____.com>
Description : Beachy Head reference from Amaryllis Night and Day

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noctylus <nex_____@_____.com>

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noctylus <nex_____@_____.com>

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noctylus <nex_____@_____.com>

But fremder is a Sci Fi novel in the same way JG Ballrd’s earlier work was – and he shares a similar obsessive streak with Ballard and I think you’re just being a bit silly shying away from the term Sci Fi and thinking such a term as ‘Post Modern’ – which has been applied to things from at least the early 1920’s onwards – as somehow less damaging – but to me the term Post Modern is just an excuse to talk bollocks and read a lot more into something than is actually there – all those French philosophers who – and i know I’m English but I’ve got nothing against the French – just spout shit – people like Derrida et al – and that horris women – whose name I forget – who wrote all about us being so crap because when we’re born thee vagina is so close to the anus – Post Modern? PAH!———————————
Start your day with Yahoo! – make it your home page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi y’awl,
While sympathising with Killy’s PAH!, I’d like to suggest (contra Yvonne)
that Lion and Turtle Diary are postmodern, too. (Or, at least, that they can
be read that way.)It might just be that I don’t want to deny them the dubious privilege of
having bollocks spoken about them, but certain of their themes do strike me
as belonging very much to that territory.

I’m thinking mostly of the deconstruction of identity and of grand
narratives and the exploration of the otherness of the Other. For example,
William and Neaera’s argument about who is responsible for their dreams of
sharks is a direct precursor to AN&D’s more thorough treatment of the same
idea. It’s more subtle, and the narrative as a whole follows more modernist
conventions, yet the same interest is there to explore the ruptures within
these.

What’s so fascinating to me about Lion and Turtle is that they are both so
deeply concerned with questioning the possibility that some kind of
transcendent narrative is giving shape to the course of our lives; and yet
both, having expressed this doubt, express equal doubt about the possibility
(or value) of actually doing away with grand narratives. In Turtle Diary,
especially, we remain haunted by the simple, absolute and finally
incomprehensible journeying of the turtles, which would seem to set a limit
on any ambition that we might transcend grand narratives ourselves (an
ambition which would suggest, of course, just another grand narrative).

There is a funny thing that sometimes happens in postmodern writing: a
writer can explore postmodern possibilities so thoroughly that there may
emerge from this activity something which appears to refute the work’s
postmodernism. Actually, it’s only at that point that I feel a work has
truly become postmodern. A lot of postmodern writers do this, but critics
often either fail to notice these aspects, or explain them away as
excursions in irony. Hoban won’t let the reader get away with that, and to
my mind that makes him the quintessential, the hyper-, the
uber-postmodernist. But it also explains why so few postmodernist critics
have embraced him.

Graeme

It has just occurred to me that, when I say Lion and Turtle belong to “that
territory”, it may read as if I mean “bollocks” rather than “postmodernism”.The two may at times seem indistinguishable, but Russ is never bollocks.

Well done, by the way, to Alida and Yvonne. You make the world a better
place.

Graeme

Ah yes – even when russ writes things I’m not too keen on – for whatever reason – I would never describe his work as bollocks!———————————
Start your day with Yahoo! – make it your home page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wouldn’t disagree with you, Graeme. It all depends on where you place
your emphasis, and I think you’ve pointed out important aspects of
Turtle Diary which I’d call postmodern too. It’s impossible to say
where or when Russ’s modernism ends and his postmodernism starts (and
ends again), a clear borderline is not only difficult to make out but
also unnecessary and undesirable. It is a matter of more or less rather
than yes/no. On the other hand, I must say that for me, Russ has more
to offer than most postmodern writers (indeed more than most other
contemporary writers), and it’s precisely what makes him for you the
“quintessential, the hyper-, the uber-postmodernist”, that makes him,
for me, more interesting, more committed and more ethical than the
average postmodern writer, i.e. Salman Rushdie, John Barth et al.As for P.A.’s PAH! What an outburst! P.A., in your vocabulary,
“postmodern” must obviously do the job normally done by
four-letter-words. For me, the term “postmodern” is nothing but a
descriptive shorthand for a certain set of literary conventions. It
might or might not amuse you that we literary scholars don’t even all
agree on one clear definition and that a lot of time is wasted on the
question of who is right in this whole false struggle. “Postmodern” is
neither “somehow less” nor more “damaging” than “science fiction” (by
the way, “sf” is no more clearly defined than “postmodern”, and Ballard
isn’t its only representative). There are science fiction elements all
right in Fremder, and I don’t see the slightest reason for “shying
away” from calling them what they are, but in my opinion, and of course
you may disagree, “postmodern” just says more about this novel, that’s
all.

Yvonne

Am 04.08.2005 um 05:56 schrieb Graeme Wend-Walker:

> Hi y’awl,
> While sympathising with Killy’s PAH!, I’d like to suggest (contra
> Yvonne)
> that Lion and Turtle Diary are postmodern, too. (Or, at least, that
> they can
> be read that way.)
>
> I’m thinking mostly of the deconstruction of identity and of grand
> narratives and the exploration of the otherness of the Other. For
> example,
> William and Neaera’s argument about who is responsible for their
> dreams of
> sharks is a direct precursor to AN&D’s more thorough treatment of the
> same
> idea. It’s more subtle, and the narrative as a whole follows more
> modernist
> conventions, yet the same interest is there to explore the ruptures
> within
> these.

 

Yes, I completely agree with you on this.

> There is a funny thing that sometimes happens in postmodern writing: a
> writer can explore postmodern possibilities so thoroughly that there
> may
> emerge from this activity something which appears to refute the work’s
> postmodernism. Actually, it’s only at that point that I feel a work has
> truly become postmodern. A lot of postmodern writers do this, but
> critics
> often either fail to notice these aspects, or explain them away as
> excursions in irony. Hoban won’t let the reader get away with that,
> and to
> my mind that makes him the quintessential, the hyper-, the
> uber-postmodernist.
> But it also explains why so few postmodernist critics
> have embraced him.
>

Yes, here I’m completely with you again.

Yes Yvonne P**t M***** is a bit of a swear word – no offence meant…!__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Troubadour page does not make entirely clear whether the credit
goes to Olaf for this as well as the visuals, but, whoever produced it,
I wondered whether I might ask for a copy at cost price, i.e. CD-ROM
plus postage, so that, when I next turn to a Hoban novel, I can spin
something fitting to it…

Anthony, different CDs were played at the Troubadour, one compiled by
Olaf, one by me, and master copies of both should be in Roland Clare’s
hands. It might be cheaper and faster to ask him for copies, but in
case he has no time, I can at least make you a copy of my compilation.Yvonne

Am 05.08.2005 um 23:02 schrieb Anthony Davis:

> The Troubadour page does not make entirely clear whether the credit
> goes to Olaf for this as well as the visuals, but, whoever produced it,
> I wondered whether I might ask for a copy at cost price, i.e. CD-ROM
> plus postage, so that, when I next turn to a Hoban novel, I can spin
> something fitting to it…
>

There is an almost World Child in Riddley (p191 in the 20th
anniversary edition): ‘Which is the hart of the Girt Chyld of Every
Thing and the worl aint nothing only a idear in the mynd of that
chyld’I daresay you all knew that, but i’ve just seen it.

On the subject of how many times things turn up, how many Ideas of
You/Us/me are there? Other than Riddley wondering what the idear of
us myt be and Medusa’s I trust you with the idea of me? I promise to
faithfully annotate all examples in one of the many footnotes to my
dissertation.

Catherine

 

— In the_____@_____.com, Fred Runk &lt_____@_____.> wrote:
> At 04:33 AM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
> >I asked – ages ago – if anyone had heard of the term World Child
being
> >used outside of The Med. Freq. – did anyone answer and I missed it
or was
> >there just one of those deafening silences? And has anyone read
Mr. Mee
> >which deals with the Net and Porn in similar ways to Ang. Grott.
and came
> >out about the same time…
>
>
> Don’t remember the message, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard the
term
> World Child being used elsewhere.
>
> No, I haven’t read Mr. Mee.
>
>
>
>
> -= Fred =-
>
>
>
> Snow-covered valley:
> Only the winding river…
> Black fluent brush-stroke
> – Boncho –

Surely Fremder is a sci-fi novel in that so many genre
conventions, coming from film as much as from written
fiction, are in place (the future, space travel,
distopian Blade Runner-ish settlements on distant
planets…perhaps even the jettisoned astronaut, on
his horrifyingly lonely trajectory through space).
But then he uses all this as a launch pad for far more
charactersitically Hobanesque preoccupations – which
can indeed be read as postmodern… You are both
right!— Yvonne Studer <yst_____@_____.ch> wrote:

———————————
I wouldn’t disagree with you, Graeme. It all depends
on where you place
your emphasis, and I think you’ve pointed out
important aspects of
Turtle Diary which I’d call postmodern too. It’s
impossible to say
where or when Russ’s modernism ends and his
postmodernism starts (and
ends again), a clear borderline is not only difficult
to make out but
also unnecessary and undesirable. It is a matter of
more or less rather
than yes/no. On the other hand, I must say that for
me, Russ has more
to offer than most postmodern writers (indeed more
than most other
contemporary writers), and it’s precisely what makes
him for you the
“quintessential, the hyper-, the uber-postmodernist”,
that makes him,
for me, more interesting, more committed and more
ethical than the
average postmodern writer, i.e. Salman Rushdie, John
Barth et al.

As for P.A.’s PAH! What an outburst! P.A., in your
vocabulary,
“postmodern” must obviously do the job normally done
by
four-letter-words. For me, the term “postmodern” is
nothing but a
descriptive shorthand for a certain set of literary
conventions. It
might or might not amuse you that we literary scholars
don’t even all
agree on one clear definition and that a lot of time
is wasted on the
question of who is right in this whole false struggle.
“Postmodern” is
neither “somehow less” nor more “damaging” than
“science fiction” (by
the way, “sf” is no more clearly defined than
“postmodern”, and Ballard
isn’t its only representative). There are science
fiction elements all
right in Fremder, and I don’t see the slightest reason
for “shying
away” from calling them what they are, but in my
opinion, and of course
you may disagree, “postmodern” just says more about
this novel, that’s
all.

Yvonne

Am 04.08.2005 um 05:56 schrieb Graeme Wend-Walker:

> Hi y’awl,
> While sympathising with Killy’s PAH!, I’d like to

suggest (contra

> Yvonne)
> that Lion and Turtle Diary are postmodern, too. (Or,

at least, that

> they can
> be read that way.)
>
> I’m thinking mostly of the deconstruction of

identity and of grand

> narratives and the exploration of the otherness of

the Other. For

> example,
> William and Neaera’s argument about who is

responsible for their

> dreams of
> sharks is a direct precursor to AN&D’s more thorough

treatment of the

> same
> idea. It’s more subtle, and the narrative as a whole

follows more

> modernist
> conventions, yet the same interest is there to

explore the ruptures

> within
> these.

 

Yes, I completely agree with you on this.

> There is a funny thing that sometimes happens in

postmodern writing: a

> writer can explore postmodern possibilities so

thoroughly that there

> may
> emerge from this activity something which appears to

refute the work’s

> postmodernism. Actually, it’s only at that point

that I feel a work has

> truly become postmodern. A lot of postmodern writers

do this, but

> critics
> often either fail to notice these aspects, or

explain them away as

> excursions in irony. Hoban won’t let the reader get

away with that,

> and to
> my mind that makes him the quintessential, the

hyper-, the

> uber-postmodernist.
> But it also explains why so few postmodernist

critics

> have embraced him.
>

Yes, here I’m completely with you again.

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If we’re agreed in any case that using words at all, let alone single
adjectives that are supposed to sum up a mood, movement or mode, is a
compromise, then there might be better ways, in trying to say
something about Russ’ work as a whole, than using words about whose
meaning there is no agreement. It seems to me that, whether or not
one wants to call Fremder science fiction, saying that about it (or
that it is postmodern) says precious little that says how it is
distinct from other writing.As with Riddley, the novel is set in the future (as Pilgermann
inhabited the past); as with Medusa (the machinery to which Orff is
wired), it features some technologies (Pythia) that, if they don’t
exist, could be conceived to derive from what we already have and
know; as with the Lion (the maps), it also features developments
(flicker drive) that are more fantastic (were it not, say, for
tracking by satellite navigation to have become commonplace); on
another level, it resonates with The Trokeville Way on the level of
personal courage and self-discovery.

It seems to me that it is not so much that the novel is firmly set in
the near future, but that flicker drive is so central to the
narrative thrust, that tempts us to conceive of it as different from
others of Russ’ novels, but is that really so in its essence? Is
living in shared dreams, talking to a sphinx or a lion, or living in
a London that is peopled by the same few individuals in numerous
roles not very much of a one with this?

Anthony: Yes.Yvonne: Yes, I knew we really agreed.

Thank you both for your thinkings and thoughts.

Graeme

Ah but when he’s floating in space I kept thinking – trying not to – of the episode of the simpsons when Homer goes up into space – does anybody else???———————————
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fans of the Slickman A4 Quotation Event and its associated website at
www.thoughtcat.com/sa4qe may be interested to know that I have now added a
search box (located in the menu bar), enabling you to search the site for
particular Hoban titles, specific quotes etc. The Atomz search software was
free, so your search results are sandwiched between the ubiquitous
“contextualised” adverts, but they’re not as intrusive as some I’ve seen and
personally I feel it’s a small price to pay. Anyway I hope this furthers
your enjoyment of SA4QE and Russ’s words.Cheers,
Richard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetngs,Some time ago there was a discussion about writers whose works suggested
Hoban’s in some way. I would like to make a late addition by mentioning M.
John Harrison, who was born in the UK and is now living, I think, in London.

His works have a similar surreal atmosphere about them, wherein there is a
plot but it goes in directions that are unexpected and sometimes
inexplicable. He also crosses literary boundaries by incorporating science
fictional or horror elements in what should be mainstream fiction.

HIs novels have won two awards-the most recent is _Light_, which won the
James W. Tiptree, Jr award for best novel of 2002, a science fiction award.

Another novel, _Climbers_, won the Bookman Tasker Memorial Award–Harrrison
was the first writer to win this award with a work of fiction.

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

Hello All
an interesting thread(s).
A great SF writer Samuel R. Delany, in his memoirs – The Motion of Light in
Water, says a couple of interesting things about the genre. He says (and I
para phrase) that through the whole McCarthy period of the 50’s not one SF
writer was called to testify or was in fact black listed, Delany say it was
because the writing was considered just fantasy nonsense. As a consequence
many writers of that time continued to challenge social, moral and
political mores in their SF writings during those times and later. I can’t
help thinking something about this “being left out” has helped many writers
back into their own work.As for M John Harrison, yes the tone is there. What is equalling fascinating
is China Mieville (who Harrison has mentored for many years) and his novel
“Perdido Street Station”, or even “The Scar”, if you are looking for vast
pirate SF saga.

And who could forget Doris Lessing and “The Canopus in Argos” series, just a
tad different to “The Golden Notebook” but what about “The Fifth Child”?.

The use of the term Science Fiction (SF) carries all manner of prejudice (as
does Post Modernism [Oom Pah]). I like to think of it as part of the exotic
palette.

Lastly another (paraphrased ) quote from Samuel R. Delany in said memoirs
above.” I didn’t set out to make my life difficult , it just turned out that
I am a
gay, black, dyslexic SF writer”

I may contribute more but am still dealing with post trumatic Some – Posyyum
envy.

All best
D

 

—– Original Message —–
From: “Fred Runk” <fre_____@_____.com>
To: <the_____@_____.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [the-kraken] Hobanesque writers

> Greetngs,
>
> Some time ago there was a discussion about writers whose works suggested
> Hoban’s in some way. I would like to make a late addition by mentioning
> M.
> John Harrison, who was born in the UK and is now living, I think, in
> London.
>
> His works have a similar surreal atmosphere about them, wherein there is a
> plot but it goes in directions that are unexpected and sometimes
> inexplicable. He also crosses literary boundaries by incorporating
> science
> fictional or horror elements in what should be mainstream fiction.
>
> HIs novels have won two awards-the most recent is _Light_, which won the
> James W. Tiptree, Jr award for best novel of 2002, a science fiction
> award.
>
> Another novel, _Climbers_, won the Bookman Tasker Memorial
> Award–Harrrison
> was the first writer to win this award with a work of fiction.
>
>
> -= Fred =-
>
>
> “Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”
>
> — M. John
> arrison —
>
>
>
>
>
> —————————————————
> The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
> http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
> For help contact the_____@_____.com
> To unsubscribe, send mail to:
> the_____@_____.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> —
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 – Release Date: 12/08/2005
>
>

I’m having a hard time thinking of any Hobanesque
writers. Some mental block on my part at the moment,
I’m sure. But when I think of the humor and the
stylistic word wit all in effective combination, I’m
coming up blank.Perhaps a couple or three of Thomas McGuane’s early
novels: PANAMA, 92 IN THE SHADE, THE BUSHWACKED PIANO.
Maybe even THE SPORTING CLUB.

Maybe some of Guy Davenport’s stories, but his work is
so grounded in the Modernist/academic world, it’s hard
to make the comparison is some ways.
– Duane
proprietor
The Pulp Rack
www.pulprack.com

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At 10:33 AM 8/14/2005, you wrote:

>I
>Maybe some of Guy Davenport’s stories, but his work is so grounded in the
>Modernist/academic world, it’s hard
>to make the comparison is some ways.
>- Duane
>proprietor
>The Pulp Rack

 

I’ve only read one collection of Davenport’s stories, and while I find them
interesting, I find his essays far more enjoyable and very
enlightening. He is one of those rare critics, Hugh Kenner is another,
whose writings about particular works makes me want to go out and read the
work or reread it with a new view of it.

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

— In the_____@_____.com, “Richard Cooper” &lt_____@_____.>
wrote:
Hi Richard –
thanks for the search function. I really appreciate this for I often
search for a certain phrase by Russ and the only thing I know is that
it’s somewhere on the SA4QE…
So this makes things easier 🙂
Keep up the good work with the SA4QE.
Best,
Olaf

> Fans of the Slickman A4 Quotation Event and its associated website

at

> www.thoughtcat.com/sa4qe may be interested to know that I have now

added a

> search box (located in the menu bar), enabling you to search the

site for

> particular Hoban titles, specific quotes etc. The Atomz search

software was

> free, so your search results are sandwiched between the ubiquitous
> “contextualised” adverts, but they’re not as intrusive as some I’ve

seen and

> personally I feel it’s a small price to pay. Anyway I hope this

furthers

> your enjoyment of SA4QE and Russ’s words.
>
> Cheers,
> Richard
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This just in from today’s Guardian. (Sorry if it comes through twice.)
– RichardCentre to explore and celebrate children’s books
by David Ward
Monday August 15, 2005
The Guardian

The former children’s laureate Quentin Blake is wearing trainers and having
40 winks on colourful cushions in the book den at Seven Stories, the £6.5m
centre for children’s books converted from a Victorian grain store on the
bank of the Ouseburn, just down river from the Tyne bridge in Newcastle.

The centre, which collects, explores and celebrates children’s books, will
be opened on Friday by the current children’s laureate, Jacqueline Wilson,
and illustrator Nick Sharratt.

Blake has been a loyal supporter since the project was launched with a £20
bank account 10 years ago by Elizabeth Hammill, then working in the
children’s books department in Waterstone’s, Newcastle, and Mary Briggs, an
assistant director of education in the city.

“The story is not over now that the centre is open,” said Blake. “There is
still a lot to do and much can be done.”

That involved “placing children’s books at the heart of our national
culture”. Seven Stories is both an archive of manuscripts and illustrations
and a tool to encourage children to explore creativity, to read and to
imagine.

The collection already includes many manuscripts by Philip Pullman (but not
the Dark Materials trilogy), illustrations by Shirley Hughes, and the
original artwork for Roald Dahl’s Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Noel
Streatfeild’s Ballet Shoes.

The centre also owns 10,000 items, including letters and first editions,
left by Kaye Webb, founder of Puffin Books, and all the manuscripts of
Geordie writer Robert Westall, each novel handwritten in a notebook.

On the seven floors are a bookshop, cafe, a basement engine room for
hands-on activities, an attic where writers and artists will discuss their
work, and galleries where the first exhibition, Incredible Journeys,
features some of the best-loved books of the last 70 years.

There hangs Quentin Blake’s portrait of Aunt Fidget Wonkham-Strong, a
miserable woman in an iron helmet who appears in two books by Russell Hoban
published 30 years ago. Where Ms Wonkham-Strong walked, “the flowers drooped
and when she sang the trees all shivered”.

There too is the artwork for Posy Simmonds’ Fred, the cat who was the
greatest singer in the world, and for Axel Scheffler’s hugely popular
Gruffalo.

Ms Briggs, now chief executive, said: “We are trying to connect people with
chidren’s books because they can have a tremendous impact on their lives.
They are so important in the intellectual and emotional development of
children – and adults too.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1549108,00.html

I’ve just begun reading _Lola_.Any words of wisdom? sage advice? caveats? observations?

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

At 07:24 AM 8/14/2005, you wrote:

>Hello All
>an interesting thread(s).
>A great SF writer Samuel R. Delany, in his memoirs – The Motion of Light
>in Water, says a couple of interesting things about the genre. He says
>(and I para phrase) that through the whole McCarthy period of the 50’s not
>one SF
>writer was called to testify or was in fact black listed, Delany say it
>was because the writing was considered just fantasy nonsense. As a
>consequence many writers of that time continued to challenge social,
>moral and
>political mores in their SF writings during those times and later. I can’t
>help thinking something about this “being left out” has helped many
>writers back into their own work.

 

Interesting observation–those who are ignored tend to have more freedom, I
guess.

 

>As for M John Harrison, yes the tone is there. What is equalling
>fascinating is China Mieville (who Harrison has mentored for many years)
>and his novel “Perdido Street Station”, or even “The Scar”, if you are
>looking for vast
>pirate SF saga.

 

I wondered about that because a number of Harrison’s later works have very
flattering promo blurbs by Mieville.

I belong to an SF discussion group, and _Perdido Street Station_ is the
December book. We just read Harrison’s _Light_ last week. We didn’t know
of the connection at the time.

I just began Hoban’s _Lola_ today. One difference between Harrison and
Hoban is that Hoban incorporates sly humor into his works while Harrison
tends to be grimly serious.

>And who could forget Doris Lessing and “The Canopus in Argos” series, just
>a tad different to “The Golden Notebook” but what about “The Fifth Child”?.

 

I read _The Golden Notebook_ more than a decade or so ago, so I remember
nothing about it. I haven’t and of the Argos series–are they worth
looking into.

>The use of the term Science Fiction (SF) carries all manner of prejudice
>(as does Post Modernism [Oom Pah]). I like to think of it as part of the
>exotic palette.
>
>Lastly another (paraphrased ) quote from Samuel R. Delany in said memoirs
>above.” I didn’t set out to make my life difficult , it just turned out
>that I am a gay, black, dyslexic SF writer”

 

I once belonged to the Science Fiction Research Association (SFRA), and he
attended one of our conferences and made that same point–I think he
started out by saying people say that SF is a ghetto–and went on to
say that’s only one of the ghettos he belongs to,….

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

Y’awl,A year ago we lost a much loved Krakenista, Judy Tihany/Backhouse.

Judy was, amongst many other things, the ukulele player in Mic Conway’s
National Junk Band, one of the most quirky and entertaining bands I have
ever seen (acts typically include magic tricks, tap dancing, juggling and
fire-eating), and she was an outstanding soloist in The Café of the Gate of
Salvation, an award-winning a capella gospel choir.

Judy will be remembered in a gig at the Bronte Bowling Club in Sydney, this
Sunday the 21st of August at 2 thirty in the pm. It will feature The
National Junk Bank, the Café and Jackie Orszaczky (“Hungarian folks songs
collide war-zone samples, crunching funk, raps, a flock of saxophones and
humorous asides”).

If anyone would like a copy of the e-poster, give me a hoy and I’ll forward
it on to you. If anyone else is going, let me know too.

Best,

Graeme

Wow!Amazing to have access to that recording.

Any chance of getting ahold of the play script itself?

(the recording is hard to watch and the sound is rather poor)

I’d also love to get a chance to look at the original full-length Riddley Walker (before it was
abridged way down to it’s published length). Anyone?

Russell?

-Jeffery-
Vancouver, BC

 

— In the_____@_____.com, “K&J Power” &lt_____@_____.> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> A few months ago I was contacted by Bill Pheasant, a jounalist here in Melbourne (he
found me via the SA4QE site – so it does get read by others!), asking if I was interested in
exploring the possibility of putting on the play Riddley Walker to coincide with the 2007
opening of Melbourne’s “cyclatron” (our own “power ring” ) – I think that is how it is spelt.
>
> At the time we discovered the play (and the movie rights) were unavailable but we were
told they were soon to be available as the rights to the movie were about to expire
(apparently the movie rights issue meant that the play was also barred from being
performed (this latter issue may not be entirely accurate but around the mark).
>
> After some searching and researching we located Greg Roach in the USA who produced
and directed Riddley in 1989 in USA. Greg is now heavily into software (games etc) and a
huge RH fan. As well , we have now been given access to the RW play script. We have
already workshopped the possibility of performing the play and are getting a group of
actors together in April this year to “read through” the play to “test” its feel. It’ gonna be
so much fun!!!!.
>
> Bill contacted me today and advised Greg has placed reviews and a Quicktime movie
files (including the WHOLE 1989 production) on his web site:
>
> http://www.hyperbole.com/riddley/
>
> I can hardly wait to view it but it is a huge file and you might need broadband to get to
it.
>
> I hope you can access the files.
>
> To all krakenites – enjoy!
>
> Kerry Power
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi anyoneHaving just read “Angelica’s Grotto”, the first Hoban experience for
me, apart froma veiwing of the (somehat)melodramatic “Turtle’s
Diary”, I am interested in approaches to “readings” of the novel, and
Hoban’s work in general. “AG” seems like a fairly distopic vision of
the “technological world” in which we live and that’s okay. There
also seem to be a number of relatively contemporary themes on the go –
the destructive, but ubiquitous, attraction of pornography, art (of
the body especially) versus pornography, cyberspace reality versus
reality in the world we actually inhabit and others. One thing I find
problematic are the repeated references or signal points, (ad
nauseum), to songs, books, music, and myth (perhaps not so much with
myth) without any substantial development of the associatedsymbolism.
For example, what does it mean that Melissa responds to Klein’s quote
from Auden’s “Look Before You Leap” other than that it signals that
Hoban (and Klein) is intertextually well-versed . Klein doesn’t
really “look before he leaps” at all (and that may bge all that the
quote is used to signify) but by grabbing an Auden quote and adding
an “intertextual” and “intellectual” design to his work, Hoban seems
to operate without too much effort of his own, and if this is this
case, then much of the novel operates in similar, superficial
territory. In other words, as pastiche and montage, assemblage rather
than “work of art” itself. Hoban may very well set out with a thinly
veiled plan of construction based on “hip” touchstones that finally
everything his work commodified and meaningless, unless this is the
soret of repetitive writing that people like to consume. Mass
produced Mcfiction for the unthinking reader. I’m uncertain whether
this is a fair response to my first reading of “AG” or whether any
further reading of his obvioulsy well-supported canon would be
worthwhile at this stage.

<<<
He says >(and I para phrase) that through the whole
McCarthy period of the 50’s not >one SF>writer was
called to testify or was in fact black listed, Delany
say it >was because the writing was considered just
fantasy nonsense. As a >consequence many writers of
that time continued to challenge social, >moral and

>political mores in their SF writings during those

times and later. I can’t >help thinking something
about this “being left out” has helped many

>writers back into their own work.

 

Interesting observation–those who are ignored tend to
have more freedom, I guess. >>>

the comic book writer and soon to be novelist warren
ellis is keen on quoting the japanese film director on
this point – who said something along the lines of “if
no one is watching his films then he can get away with
more” – which is the same point as delaney with SF,
and with ellis on comics. and i guess they can be used
as rough examples to widen the hobanic example
outwards.

as for m. john harrison, i started with his novel
“light” which was quite striking, i’m working my way
through his collection of short stories “travel
arrangements”, which is probably particularly
relavent, and i recently read his classic novel “the
centauri device”, which is particularly grim.

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Dear Chrilata and awl,Two Krakenites, myself and Yvonne Studer, just posted an overview of
Russ’ work–all of it–at Literary Encyclopedia on line–click on People,
then H, and you’ll find our piece. There’s a mistake or two we’re waiting
for the encyclopedia editors to fix for us, but it’s a summary you might
find useful.

Best, alida

At 08:34 PM 8/15/2005, you wrote:

>Hi anyone
>
>Having just read “Angelica’s Grotto”, the first Hoban experience for
>me, apart froma veiwing of the (somehat)melodramatic “Turtle’s
>Diary”, I am interested in approaches to “readings” of the novel, and
>Hoban’s work in general. “AG” seems like a fairly distopic vision of
>the “technological world” in which we live and that’s okay. There
>also seem to be a number of relatively contemporary themes on the go –
> the destructive, but ubiquitous, attraction of pornography, art (of
>the body especially) versus pornography, cyberspace reality versus
>reality in the world we actually inhabit and others. One thing I find
>problematic are the repeated references or signal points, (ad
>nauseum), to songs, books, music, and myth (perhaps not so much with
>myth) without any substantial development of the associatedsymbolism.
>For example, what does it mean that Melissa responds to Klein’s quote
>from Auden’s “Look Before You Leap” other than that it signals that
>Hoban (and Klein) is intertextually well-versed . Klein doesn’t
>really “look before he leaps” at all (and that may bge all that the
>quote is used to signify) but by grabbing an Auden quote and adding
>an “intertextual” and “intellectual” design to his work, Hoban seems
>to operate without too much effort of his own, and if this is this
>case, then much of the novel operates in similar, superficial
>territory. In other words, as pastiche and montage, assemblage rather
>than “work of art” itself. Hoban may very well set out with a thinly
>veiled plan of construction based on “hip” touchstones that finally
>everything his work commodified and meaningless, unless this is the
>soret of repetitive writing that people like to consume. Mass
>produced Mcfiction for the unthinking reader. I’m uncertain whether
>this is a fair response to my first reading of “AG” or whether any
>further reading of his obvioulsy well-supported canon would be
>worthwhile at this stage.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>—————————————————
>The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
>http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
>For help contact the_____@_____.com
>To unsubscribe, send mail to:
>the_____@_____.com
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

 

Alida Allison, Professor
Center for the Study of Children’s Literature
English and Comparative Literature Dept.
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-8140
(619) 594-5443 (messages)
(619) 594-4998 (FAX)

WEB SITE FOR THE CHILDREN’S LITERATURE PROGRAM: www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~childlit
Our book reviews are now posted on Parents’ Choice web site: parents-choice.org

———-
“You only live once–but if you work it right, once is enough.”
Joe
E. Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I read ‘Shikasta’, the first of the ‘Canopus’ series,
ages ago, when it first came out as a paperback. I
remember it as being very good indeed, but very
serious; quite without humour in fact. But a valuable
book; one to be reckoned with. Another (earlier)
Lessing novel in science fiction vein, which struck me
as quite brilliant, far more unconventional and
startling, is ‘Briefing for a Descent into Hell’…has
anyone else read this?— Fred Runk <fre_____@_____.com> wrote:

———————————
At 07:24 AM 8/14/2005, you wrote:

>Hello All
>an interesting thread(s).
>A great SF writer Samuel R. Delany, in his memoirs –

The Motion of Light

>in Water, says a couple of interesting things about

the genre. He says

>(and I para phrase) that through the whole McCarthy

period of the 50’s not

>one SF
>writer was called to testify or was in fact black

listed, Delany say it

>was because the writing was considered just fantasy

nonsense. As a

>consequence many writers of that time continued to

challenge social,

>moral and
>political mores in their SF writings during those

times and later. I can’t

>help thinking something about this “being left out”

has helped many

>writers back into their own work.

 

Interesting observation–those who are ignored tend to
have more freedom, I
guess.

 

>As for M John Harrison, yes the tone is there. What

is equalling

>fascinating is China Mieville (who Harrison has

mentored for many years)

>and his novel “Perdido Street Station”, or even “The

Scar”, if you are

>looking for vast
>pirate SF saga.

 

I wondered about that because a number of Harrison’s
later works have very
flattering promo blurbs by Mieville.

I belong to an SF discussion group, and _Perdido
Street Station_ is the
December book. We just read Harrison’s _Light_ last
week. We didn’t know
of the connection at the time.

I just began Hoban’s _Lola_ today. One difference
between Harrison and
Hoban is that Hoban incorporates sly humor into his
works while Harrison
tends to be grimly serious.

>And who could forget Doris Lessing and “The Canopus

in Argos” series, just

>a tad different to “The Golden Notebook” but what

about “The Fifth Child”?.

I read _The Golden Notebook_ more than a decade or so
ago, so I remember
nothing about it. I haven’t and of the Argos
series–are they worth
looking into.

>The use of the term Science Fiction (SF) carries all

manner of prejudice

>(as does Post Modernism [Oom Pah]). I like to think

of it as part of the

>exotic palette.
>
>Lastly another (paraphrased ) quote from Samuel R.

Delany in said memoirs

>above.” I didn’t set out to make my life difficult ,

it just turned out

>that I am a gay, black, dyslexic SF writer”

 

I once belonged to the Science Fiction Research
Association (SFRA), and he
attended one of our conferences and made that same
point–I think he
started out by saying people say that SF is a
ghetto–and went on to
say that’s only one of the ghettos he belongs to,….

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from
again and again.”

—
M. John Harrison —

—————————————————
The Kraken: The Russell Hoban Mailing List
http://www.ocelotfactory.com/hoban
For help contact the_____@_____.com
To unsubscribe, send mail to:
the_____@_____.com

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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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At 06:59 AM 8/16/2005, you wrote:

>the comic book writer and soon to be novelist warren ellis is keen on
>quoting the japanese film director on this point – who said something
>along the lines of “if no one is watching his films then he can get away
>with more” – which is the same point as delaney with SF, and with ellis on
>comics. and i guess they can be used as rough examples to widen the
>hobanic example outwards.

 

Chuckle…I remember when comic books were suddenly “noticed” back in the
early 50s I think it was, There was a radical change in subject matter and
graphic content that even a 12 or 13 year old like me could see.

 

>as for m. john harrison, i started with his novel “light” which was quite
>striking, i’m working my way through his collection of short stories
>”travel arrangements”, which is probably particularly relavent, and i
>recently read his classic novel “the centauri device”, which is
>particularly grim.

 

I’ve read a number of his works including _Light_, _The Centauri
Device_, and _The Course of the Heart_ which I just finished. If you can
find a copy, I would recommend his short story collection _Things That
Don’t Happen_, which contains a large number of his short works, many of
which show up later as parts of his novels..

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

At 12:35 PM 8/16/2005, you wrote:

>I read ‘Shikasta’, the first of the ‘Canopus’ series, ages ago, when it
>first came out as a paperback. I remember it as being very good indeed,
>but very serious; quite without humour in fact. But a valuable book; one
>to be reckoned with. Another (earlier) Lessing novel in science fiction
>vein, which struck me as quite brilliant, far more unconventional and
>startling, is ‘Briefing for a Descent into Hell’…has anyone else read
>this?

 

No, I haven’t read any of Lessing’s SF, but I will look around now for
them. _Shikasta_ is the first in the “Canopus” series then?

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

M. John Harrison, I’ve read Light and Viriconium but that’s all, enjoyed
them both, will look out for the others.
With Lessing I think the series coincided with her becoming a Sufi, if there
is a link I’m not sure. Yes Shikasta is the first. (The dust jacket on mine
describes the style as “Sociological Space Fiction”) I remember when they
all came out, there was not one positive review.It’s true neither of the above are known for their humour, but Harrison
seems to share Russ’s atmosphere of dream, although I must say I have the
impression that Harrison’s dream seem a little drug induced (not necessarily
a bad thing), whereas Russ seems to effortlessly capture that moment of
waking, where dream and waking merge for seconds.
Sometimes that rim of consciousness has humour or a smile.

D

—– Original Message —–
From: “Fred Runk” <fre_____@_____.com>
To: <the_____@_____.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [the-kraken] Hobanesque writers and Putting cats back in bags

> At 12:35 PM 8/16/2005, you wrote:
>>I read ‘Shikasta’, the first of the ‘Canopus’ series, ages ago, when it
>>first came out as a paperback. I remember it as being very good indeed,
>>but very serious; quite without humour in fact. But a valuable book; one
>>to be reckoned with. Another (earlier) Lessing novel in science fiction
>>vein, which struck me as quite brilliant, far more unconventional and
>>startling, is ‘Briefing for a Descent into Hell’…has anyone else read
>>this?
>
>
> No, I haven’t read any of Lessing’s SF, but I will look around now for
> them. _Shikasta_ is the first in the “Canopus” series then?
>
>
>
> -= Fred =-
>
>
> “Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”
>
> — M. John
> arrison —
>
>
>
>
>
> —————————————————
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>

<<I’ve read a number of his works including _Light_,
_The Centauri Device_, and _The Course of the Heart_
which I just finished. If you can find a copy, I
would recommend his short story collection _Things
That Don’t Happen_, which contains a large number of
his short works, many of which show up later as
parts of his novels..>>is that short story collection one of the new prints?
i noticed one volume which seemed to contain most of
the stuff in “travel arrangements” which i already
have. there are a couple of pieces in there which
obviously became “light”

-= Fred =-

___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we’ve developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

At 07:42 AM 8/17/2005, you wrote:

>is that short story collection one of the new prints? i noticed one volume
>which seemed to contain most of the stuff in “travel arrangements” which
>i already have. there are a couple of pieces in there which obviously
>became “light”

 

Yes, it’s a recent publication. It has some works that ended up in _Light_
and also _Signs of LIfe_ and some that were originally published in a
previous collection _The Ice Monkey_, which I have. I guess it’s sort of a
Best of collection, although it doesn’t say that. And, it has a long
introduction by guess who?

I haven’t found a copy of _Travel Arrangements_, but it is on my list. I
may have to get it from abebooks.com, as Harrison is even harder to find in
the US than Hoban..

I first discovered Harrison through his “Viriconium” series.

According to his website, there’s an omnibus edition of all four of his
“Viriconium” works now out. The title is _Viriconium_. As my paperback
editions are falling apart, I may have to invest in this edition.

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

At 03:07 AM 8/17/2005, you wrote:

>It’s true neither of the above are known for their humour, but Harrison
>seems to share Russ’s atmosphere of dream, although I must say I have the
>impression that Harrison’s dream seem a little drug induced (not
>necessarily a bad thing), whereas Russ seems to effortlessly capture that
>moment of waking, where dream and waking merge for seconds.Sometimes that
>rim of consciousness has humour or a smile.
>
>D

 

Many of Harrison’s characters use drugs and seem to inhabit the lower
depths of society or the fringe, while Hoban’s seem to be more middle
class, professional and academic frequently.

Yes, Hoban’s characters do seem to move back and forth without any chemical
aid.

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

harrisons work has been kind of difficult to get over
here in the UK as well. i think the success of “light”
has led to an improved situation.i came across a beat up copy of “travel arrangements”
in my local borders, which they had obviously had for
years. i decided it wasn’t worth the money in that
condition. and later found it in a remaindered shop
for a lot cheaper. which was cool.

i know there was a recent UK collection of short
stories which seemed to have a real overlap with
“travel arrangements”, and there was another “new”
book which was a couple of novellas stuck together.

i have virconium, the collected edition sitting to be
read. its part of the masterworks series, a collection
of classic SF and fantasy novels from orion.

now for what is perhaps a little self-indulgence,
anyone here know canadian writer cory doctorow? he did
a reading in glasgow recently, which i recorded and
just posted on my blog –
http://remotevoices.blogspot.com – i think some fans
of hoban will appreciate his stuff. he has three
novels published, which are also available for free on
his website http://craphound.com

his first novel is “down and out in the magic kingdom”
and features a respect based culture, where the people
have taken back the magic kingdom for themselves, and
individual groups now run the theme parks. his second
is “eastern standard tribe”, and features an agent of
the eastern standard tribe working in one of the UK’s
tribes to sabotage its success and what happens when
things get out of hand. his new novel is “someone
comes to town, someone leaves town”, which i’ve not
read about, so i don’t actually know what it is about.
the reading is from a work in progress.

he has a kind of “other” to his writing, kind of
science fiction, but also very much extracted from
now. as i say, his novels are available as downloads
on his site, so doesn’t do any harm to check him out.

hopefully not too off topic.

peter

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger – NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Methinks you are forgetting Riddley’s ‘cuts of hash and rizlas'(though they do seem peripheral to the story)

-Jeffery-

> Many of Harrison’s characters use drugs and seem to inhabit the lower
> depths of society or the fringe, while Hoban’s seem to be more middle
> class, professional and academic frequently.
>
> Yes, Hoban’s characters do seem to move back and forth without any
> chemical
> aid.
>
>
> -= Fred =-
>
>
> “Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”
>
> — M. John
> Harrison —
>
>

hey -BBC’s “Drama on 3” did an adaptation of “The Tragical Comedy or Comical
Tragedy of Mr. Punch”, the Neil Gaiman comicbook(*) about a boy’s
mysterious encounters with a Punch man in a seaside town. I wasn’t
thrilled with the adaptation, though maybe I just can’t get used to the
lack of Dave McKean’s lovely artwork, but it’s a good story. It aired
on August 14, and until the next play (August 21, I guess) you can hear
it by clicking the “Listen to the latest program” link on this page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/dramaon3/

There don’t seem to be any other archived programs – sorry for the
short notice. I guess it’ll be online again if they ever rebroadcast
it, as they did with “Turtle Diary”.

Eli

(*) http://www.ninthart.com/display.php?article=772

At 09:38 AM 8/18/2005, you wrote:

>Methinks you are forgetting Riddley’s ‘cuts of hash and rizlas’
>
>(though they do seem peripheral to the story)
>
>-Jeffery-

 

You are right; I did forget those, but I also agree that they seem somewhat
peripheral to the story. RW wouldn’t be a substantially different book, I
think, if those were left out.

-= Fred =-

“Every story is a cup so empty it can be drunk from again and again.”

— M. John Harrison —

> >Methinks you are forgetting Riddley’s ‘cuts of hash and rizlas’
>
> RW wouldn’t be a
> substantially different book, I think, if those were left out.

 

I’m no expert on hash, nor a particular fan of it, but I beg to differ! It’s
tough to get through any vale of tears (but especially a post-nuclear
dystopia) entirely sober, and hash feels more appropriate to RW than
alcohol. Firstly, alcohol in its various forms has a generally congenial
character and effect, so having Riddley and his society sitting round the
fire with jugs of rum or pints of frothy ale and singing jolly songs would
have been somewhat at odds with the characters’ miserable situation and the
generally downbeat atmosphere.

Secondly, I may be wrong on this, but I guess (good) wine, beer etc require
more time, knowledge and technology to manufacture than hash. In a
hunter-gatherer society I would’ve thought those qualities would be in short
supply.

Finally, as Will Self wrote in his introduction to the 20th anniversary
edition of RW: “the residents of a post-nuclear holocaust Kent, where
technology has regressed to the level of the Iron Age, smoke hash and roll
it in rizlas. But I don’t think this is an anachronism, because
hash-ingesting seems to me to be an obviously Iron Age sort of a thing to
do. I’m not even talking about getting stoned, I mean the way the stuff
gunges up your fingernails and its elemental feel, as if it were the earth
itself… The presence of hash makes sense also because of its role in the
world described by the book. It’s the travelling show men and their local
interpreters who get paid in ‘cuts’ of hash, and this seems appropriate.
Hash is a reverie-producing substance and these men are in the business of
promoting a government through collective access to narratives of dreams and
dreams of narrative, the fragments of a collective consciousness that has
been shattered like a glass bowl dropped on a tile floor.”

Richard